Short M14 - Bolt Closure issue.
- Thread starter NavyCuda
- Start date
From the sounds of, it's time to try some live rounds.
Load two in the mag the first few times and see what happens
Thanks again for lending your expertise and knowledge to my concern. Everyone's replies are greatly appreceated!
I did not even consider the roll pin, so on your question I did have a look and found the pin comes out about a centimeter away from the back of the bolt when in battery. My pin is correctly installed and is not interfering with the bolt travel. In my situation the bolt is already all the way forward but has not rotated into battery when it becomes bound up.
So while I was looking at the pin on your suggestion I started looking at the back of the bolt more, it looks to me like the firing pin is getting caught up on the shelf just before rotating to battery. The grease is helping to ease the movement. The more I look at it, the more it looks like the bolt is getting shifted over and contacting the left lug under spring pressure. The firing pin "tab" is on the right side, so the bolt would pivot off the firing pin.
Ouch I was hoping it wasn't that.
NavyCuda please wipe all the grease from that area. Then take the same pic again. I will be then able to tell you if it is a warrenty issue or if there is a possible quick fix for your issue.
Also by any chance you have a caliper set and a bolt dis-assembley tool?
NavyCuda please wipe all the grease from that area. Then take the same pic again. I will be then able to tell you if it is a warrenty issue or if there is a possible quick fix for your issue.
Also by any chance you have a caliper set and a bolt dis-assembley tool?
I'm leaving for Germany today, on the way to the airport now. When I get back I will clean the rifle and retake the picture. It's hard to see in the picture but there are contact marks on the shelf.
I do not have a disassembly tool but I have an array of measuring devices available to me.
So I still have to clean the rifle, but made a range trip with the rifle and I'm delighted at one aspect, but the others make me feel as though this rifle is going to be a warranty return. The good, all the brass .308 cases went perfectly into the case gauge and would be acceptable to reload again without even putting through the press. Really impressed by that. My other m14, there isn't a hope in hell the casing will go into the case gauge.
The bad, the bolt hold open tab will not hold the bolt open any more, I'll have to inspect it further but I'm guessing that on either the bolt or the tab, the hard surfacing is not sufficient for the job and has rounded off.
I found the bolt closing issue grew worse and worse the more rounds I put through the rifle. I fired 25 brass cased rounds first, to rough check my headspace. I put 100 rounds of norc steel cased copper washed non-corrosive afterwards.
Tomorrow if I'm not too lazy I will clean and thoroughly inspect the rifle for wear marks that should be more evident after live fire.
[youtube]MMm9-NcNQZA[/youtube]
At 0:16 you'll see that the bolt was just shy of closed and I pulled the trigger. I did not realize that the bolt was not fully closed. When I checked the cartridge afterwards there was no strike on the primer.
The bad, the bolt hold open tab will not hold the bolt open any more, I'll have to inspect it further but I'm guessing that on either the bolt or the tab, the hard surfacing is not sufficient for the job and has rounded off.
I found the bolt closing issue grew worse and worse the more rounds I put through the rifle. I fired 25 brass cased rounds first, to rough check my headspace. I put 100 rounds of norc steel cased copper washed non-corrosive afterwards.
Tomorrow if I'm not too lazy I will clean and thoroughly inspect the rifle for wear marks that should be more evident after live fire.
[youtube]MMm9-NcNQZA[/youtube]
At 0:16 you'll see that the bolt was just shy of closed and I pulled the trigger. I did not realize that the bolt was not fully closed. When I checked the cartridge afterwards there was no strike on the primer.
Cleaned of grease or as-is?
This issue can also be caused by the bolt/barrel interface
The bolt head , as it cams into the barrel opening, can hang up on the top of the bolt.
This is caused by a few things. Out of spec bolt, out of spec receiver or simply a bit too much metal on the top of the bolt head.
The first step is to use a machinist blue or jiffy marker and color up the bolt head surfaces that contact the barrel. Manual open and close the bolt, sping and guide rod installed, camming it in and out of the barrel/locKup.
Inspect bolt for wear points. These can be stoned (no files) to polish and relieve binding with the barrel. If this doesn't fix the issue, something is wrong with the receiver.
The bolt stop issue is concerning.
The bolt head , as it cams into the barrel opening, can hang up on the top of the bolt.
This is caused by a few things. Out of spec bolt, out of spec receiver or simply a bit too much metal on the top of the bolt head.
The first step is to use a machinist blue or jiffy marker and color up the bolt head surfaces that contact the barrel. Manual open and close the bolt, sping and guide rod installed, camming it in and out of the barrel/locKup.
Inspect bolt for wear points. These can be stoned (no files) to polish and relieve binding with the barrel. If this doesn't fix the issue, something is wrong with the receiver.
The bolt stop issue is concerning.
I'll let you know what I find, but from my quick inspection it's really looking like the firing pin hanging up on the receiver before going into battery. Probably will include some pictures. I'm still most likely to return this rifle for warranty.
Well I think you were right Doc!
It is still hard to tell in the pictures, but after firing the contact points between the bolt and barrel became evident. I tried the bolt from my other M14, and it too would hang up. I checked the firing pin, and although it comes very close it actually isn't contacting the receiver.
You can see now that there is some contact points around the top of the bolt and the extractor. I don't think a whole lot of material would have to be removed to get things functioning correctly. My guess is that as the rifle heated up and things expanded it made this flaw more noticeable.
I would really like to find a way to make this rifle work. I need to get some headspace gauges but I'm happy with how the brass comes out of this rifle.
The bolt hold open is due to a finishing flaw on the bolt lug. The lug was rounded too much and there is no flat spot for the bolt hold open to work. The effected bolt is on the left.
It is still hard to tell in the pictures, but after firing the contact points between the bolt and barrel became evident. I tried the bolt from my other M14, and it too would hang up. I checked the firing pin, and although it comes very close it actually isn't contacting the receiver.
You can see now that there is some contact points around the top of the bolt and the extractor. I don't think a whole lot of material would have to be removed to get things functioning correctly. My guess is that as the rifle heated up and things expanded it made this flaw more noticeable.
I would really like to find a way to make this rifle work. I need to get some headspace gauges but I'm happy with how the brass comes out of this rifle.
The bolt hold open is due to a finishing flaw on the bolt lug. The lug was rounded too much and there is no flat spot for the bolt hold open to work. The effected bolt is on the left.
Personally, I'd take Chris up on his warranty offer and not try to correct the issue. It "could be" an incorrectable flaw and proper guaging to find and relieve the issue would involve full inspection on bolt, barrel and receiver.
Sounds like a headache to me
Sounds like a headache to me
Personally, I'd take Chris up on his warranty offer and not try to correct the issue. It "could be" an incorrectable flaw and proper guaging to find and relieve the issue would involve full inspection on bolt, barrel and receiver.
Sounds like a headache to me
Yeah I know! I'm just a little shy that's all. My other m14 devastates brass and I can't reload for it or with the brass from it. This rifle, the brass goes perfectly back into the case gauge and isn't stretched. It might be that I'm reading too much into it. The mechanic in me wants to fix the rifle rather than warranty it. I have to think about it for a while more, but I still have the original box and CanAm's address!
I don’t think you want to void the warranty in case something else is wrong.
