Short vs Long Action Bolt Gun???

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Max-4

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I am in the market for a "do it all" bolt gun for moose, deer and black bear. I am wondering about the differences between a long and short action bolt gun like a 30-06 vs .308. I think I am decided on a Ruger M77 Hawkeye walnut and blued, this rifle comes with rings already but has only 1 spot to mount them. If were not talking about a picatinny rail yet, I am worried about the longer bolt throw for speed and the longer distance to cover when mounting a scope. I want to get a lower power scope for here in Ontario like a 2-7 or 3-9 so it likely will have a shortish tube length.

What do you guys think, I know some companies make dedicated short action rifles with shorter actions, but some companies cheat and put a .308 or .243 on a long action and just put in a block or something. Looks like the ruger in 30-06 weighs 7.5 pounds while the .308 weigs 7 pounds, I assume thats because the shorter action length. The 30-06 is also .75" longer overall length than the .308. Do you guys think I should stick with a short action or I shouldnt have any problems with a long action?
 
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In theory a short-action will cycle faster. In practise, it rarely makes any difference. After that, you just need to pick a calibre and that will tell you which action length you need.

Most manufacturers DO have different action lengths for calibers. Ask about a specific gun/round combo and someone will help you out.

Also, don;t worry too much about ring spacing - worst case, there are extension rings. I have mounted plenty of Leopold and bushnell Elite 2-7 scopes on long actions and haven;t had a scope/gun combo I could;t get to work with the right mounts and rings, FWIW.
 
I have both action lengths you've listed, mind you mine is 25-06 not 30-06, same deal regardless.
I figure it all depends on what else you have for guns, i know guys that have magnums, and then just one short action, it throws them off. So that is a bit of a factor.
For hunting i dont mind long actions, more weight for less recoil and a bit more time to allow you to reset.
Like posted above, the caliber you choose will dictate your action, but there are some choices. I would be more concerned with choosing the right caliber not the action length.
 
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Ive seen first hand a long action short stroked in a hunting scenario. The empty casing ejected but a new shell was not picked up from the mag. Gun went "click" on the trigger pull, and the bewildered hunter went "....WHAT THE ****"

My main rifle is a Ruger M77 in 308 with a 2x7 Leupold. It kills anything in Ontario with no problems whatsoever. So I bet you can guess where my vote lays.
 
Claven2 said:
Also, don;t worry too much about ring spacing - worst case, there are extension rings. I have mounted plenty of Leopold and bushnell Elite 2-7 scopes on long actions and haven;t had a scope/gun combo I could;t get to work with the right mounts and rings, FWIW.
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I would worry about it. So far I have gone through half a dozen gun and scope combos and ring types, ext and non and it has been a royal gong show. All look great until one zooms in then it's pinhole time, not enough eye relief is super frustrating.
 
Calum said:
I would worry about it. So far I have gone through half a dozen gun and scope combos and ring types, ext and non and it has been a royal gong show. All look great until one zooms in then it's pinhole time, not enough eye relief is super frustrating.
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I have this problem with my .300 win mag, with the scope zoomed in I find myself leaning forward to get a better view. I can also relate to what blasted_saber said about not pulling the bolt ALL the way back and going click instead of boom. Fortunately it was at the range and not in the field.
 
blasted_saber said:
Ive seen first hand a long action short stroked in a hunting scenario. The empty casing ejected but a new shell was not picked up from the mag. Gun went "click" on the trigger pull, and the bewildered hunter went "....WHAT THE ****"

My main rifle is a Ruger M77 in 308 with a 2x7 Leupold. It kills anything in Ontario with no problems whatsoever. So I bet you can guess where my vote lays.
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Practise racking that action. Fast, hard and right to the end is the only way to go. I'd pick 30-06, but I have a .308 in a long action...go figure.
 
seamus30 said:
I have this problem with my .300 win mag, with the scope zoomed in I find myself leaning forward to get a better view. I can also relate to what blasted_saber said about not pulling the bolt ALL the way back and going click instead of boom. Fortunately it was at the range and not in the field.
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Why not just move your scope back a bit then or switch to a scope where eye relief doesn't change with zoom or if need be go to a scope with a longer tube? I've got several long action rifles and have zero eye relief issues...that said, I am starting to get a real fondness for short actions. But with that said, if I where choosing between a 308 and 30-06, I'd go 30-06. I'm having the same dilemma with a 300WM and 300WSM decision right now. Thankfully both of our decisions are definitely first-world problems with no real wrong answer...lol
 
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sheephunter said:
Why not just move your scope back a bit then or switch to a scope where eye relief doesn't change with zoom or if need be go to a scope with a longer tube? I've got several long action rifles and have zero eye relief issues...that said, I am starting to get a real fondness for short actions. But with that said, if I where choosing between a 308 and 30-06, I'd go 30-06. I'm having the same dilemma with a 300WM and 300WSM decision right now. Thankfully both of our decisions are definitely first-world problems with no real wrong answer...lol
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It's back as far as it can go already, I want to get a scope that will work with it but unfortunately I don't have the $1300 right now to get the one I want so I'll have to struggle with it for another hunting season. Is that still a first world problem? Lol.
 
I have a pile of both short and long action rifles and have never had an issue with mounting a scope. I've never used extension rings on any of them. I guess it's just different person to person. I also don't understand the "it doesn't fit me" argument when selecting a rifle, as I have many different stock styles and lengths in my collection, so I guess I'm just weird that way.

Another thing to consider when choosing long or short action is the weight. All other things being equal, the short action will be slightly lighter. Over all length is also a bit shorter.
 
I have both in several platforms.... i actually prefer long action because, in the "heat of battle" that little distance doesnt matter. ... and i take pride in working that action like a boss (i only own bolt and break... its my thing)......

My fave rifle is my good old rem 700 mr aught 6 circa late eighties but i also love my ruger scout in 308 as a brush gun.... my advice is ignore the caliber in this case and get the platform that fits you best....

Two awesome and time proven cartridges.... you really cant go wrong for your use.....
 
seamus30 said:
It's back as far as it can go already, I want to get a scope that will work with it but unfortunately I don't have the $1300 right now to get the one I want so I'll have to struggle with it for another hunting season. Is that still a first world problem? Lol.
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If your rifle is a keeper, you can cut the stock back a little bit.
 
Hah I've short-cycled my 303 before.

I've also short cycled my friends 300winmag X-bolt. That sucker you really have to pull that bolt home or it doesn't pick up the next catridge. I didn't like that...

Onto the topic at hand. As a novice shooter, it doesn't make a lick of difference to me. The only time I really notice the difference is going back to shooting the .22 - that short-ass bolt throw feels like a kids toy after shooting centerfire for a while.

I would definitely pick the cartridge you want and let that decide on short vs long action.
 
It really doesn't matter that much... The difference in weight between a long action Remington 700 and a short action Remington 700 is less than 1.5 ounces... and the length about 1/2 inch.
 
Max-4 said:
I am in the market for a "do it all" bolt gun for moose, deer and black bear. I am wondering about the differences between a long and short action bolt gun like a 30-06 vs .308. I think I am decided on a Ruger M77 Hawkeye walnut and blued, this rifle comes with rings already but has only 1 spot to mount them. If were not talking about a picatinny rail yet, I am worried about the longer bolt throw for speed and the longer distance to cover when mounting a scope. I want to get a lower power scope for here in Ontario like a 2-7 or 3-9 so it loikely will have a shortish tube length.

What do you guys think I know some companies make dedicated short and long action rifles with shorter actions, but some companies cheat and put a .308 or .243 on a long action and just put in a block or something. Looks like the ruger in 30-06 weighs 7.5 pounds while the .308 weigs 7 pounds, I assume thats because the shorter action length. The 30-06 is also .75" longer overall length than the .308. Do you guys think I should stick with a short action or I shouldnt have any problems with a long action?
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Which one is in stock at your LGS? that would be the deciding factor for me.
 
For the comparision .. I own two Kimber Montanas, a M84 in .243 (short action) and a L84 in .25-06 (long action).

And yes OP, as you mentioned, some manufacturers do "cheat" .. but not Kimber - each Kimber action type is a complete rifle redesign ..
Kimber receivers, barrels, and stocks are all separately engineered for a specific action length ..
.. (e.g. the steel thickness of each receiver varies according to the action design requirements, to be be both strong and light in weight).

So, to address your question, which action length do I prefer? ...
Well, I really do like both, but the Montana L84 (long action) does seems to be slightly better balanced.
 
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