I just picked up an old 16g. AYA that is choked too tight for my intended purposes. I want to use it as a rainy day woodcock gun and SK/IC is how I choke my Citori 20g. This gun has 28" barrels which in that type of hunting I find don't help at all. Thinking of cutting it down to 26" and living with the Cyl/Cyl results. I know most automatically recommend "not" cutting doubles but would like to hear from people who have done it with good and bad results. I have access to some good gunsmiths as I live just outside the GTA.
Shortening a SxS shotgun
- Thread starter linderhof
- Start date
If you can run a hacksaw and a file decently you can do the job yourself. I've done 4 or 5 doubles now for myself and some other cowboy action types in the area. Slice it off file the end and square it to the side of the rib looking down from above and make it an even angle across the face from top and bottom.
I say "even angle" instead of square because the barrel tubes are tapered. So you can't use the square normally. You use it to see the gap at the inside corner and make that gap the same when gauged off both the top and bottom.
The results will be good enough and the gun will still pattern to POA.
Really though 28" to 26" isn't much. If you want to make it shorter to make it more nimble why not consider 22 to 24"? Especially if you're OK with cylinder choke.
I say "even angle" instead of square because the barrel tubes are tapered. So you can't use the square normally. You use it to see the gap at the inside corner and make that gap the same when gauged off both the top and bottom.
The results will be good enough and the gun will still pattern to POA.
Really though 28" to 26" isn't much. If you want to make it shorter to make it more nimble why not consider 22 to 24"? Especially if you're OK with cylinder choke.
As long as the barrels are left at something over 18 inches you're OK. I'd aim for 20 as it seems to give a reasonable pattern dispersion for close in use. Yet a 20 inch double is a VERY handy size even in tight spots. It also gives you more material for dressing the ends and still keeping the gun VERY legal for when it gets dented and needs a cleanup.
When I've used my cut down double for "Cowboy Clays" as long as I can get the shot off before the clay gets much past 30 to 35 yards it breaks up decently indicating a fair number of pellets passed through it. If it gets much further away even a good hit can find it only breaking into two or three pieces indicating only a pellet or three hit it.
I know that when I patterned it on a 2x3 foot piece of paper at 20 yards the holes were all over the target and fairly evenly patterened at around an average of 3/8 to 1/2 inch between holes in the center of the pattern and increasing to around 1.5" at the edges with probably 1/5 of the pellets missing past the edges. So the effective pattern at 20 for a 20 inch cylinder choke 12Ga would appear to be around an 18" center. This was done something like 5 years back. So I hope I'm remembering the numbers well enough.
I know that our cylinder choke guns take down 15 yard fallers in cowboy action with authority if the middle of the pattern hits the paddle. And it doesn't take much of a shift of the bead off the edge to result in a light hit that won't take it down. So for close in quick shots I think you're going to find that you can bring home the birds just fine. But if you're a little slow and they are looking a little small over the front bead I'd let them go compared to how you'd feel for the same shot with a choke to hold the pattern a little tighter. Likely you'll end up losing around the last 20 yards compared to your choked barrels?
You will find that with the loss of the front end weight that the gun won't hold open for loading. You'll find that you need to hold it so the open barrels are pointed out and more level so their weight holds the action open enough to get the shells started. But it'll likely trap the rims on the back shield until you grab the barrels and hold them down to let the new rounds slip into the chambers. For cowboy action we get a smith to lighten the mainsprings and slightly adjust the cocking fingers so that the lighter barrel holds open without this issue. But of course that's a fine line between mainsprings light enough to hold open easily and ones that produce too many light strikes. That's likely not something you want to tackle yourself. Or if you do be prepared to buy new mainsprings.
When I've used my cut down double for "Cowboy Clays" as long as I can get the shot off before the clay gets much past 30 to 35 yards it breaks up decently indicating a fair number of pellets passed through it. If it gets much further away even a good hit can find it only breaking into two or three pieces indicating only a pellet or three hit it.
I know that when I patterned it on a 2x3 foot piece of paper at 20 yards the holes were all over the target and fairly evenly patterened at around an average of 3/8 to 1/2 inch between holes in the center of the pattern and increasing to around 1.5" at the edges with probably 1/5 of the pellets missing past the edges. So the effective pattern at 20 for a 20 inch cylinder choke 12Ga would appear to be around an 18" center. This was done something like 5 years back. So I hope I'm remembering the numbers well enough.
I know that our cylinder choke guns take down 15 yard fallers in cowboy action with authority if the middle of the pattern hits the paddle. And it doesn't take much of a shift of the bead off the edge to result in a light hit that won't take it down. So for close in quick shots I think you're going to find that you can bring home the birds just fine. But if you're a little slow and they are looking a little small over the front bead I'd let them go compared to how you'd feel for the same shot with a choke to hold the pattern a little tighter. Likely you'll end up losing around the last 20 yards compared to your choked barrels?
You will find that with the loss of the front end weight that the gun won't hold open for loading. You'll find that you need to hold it so the open barrels are pointed out and more level so their weight holds the action open enough to get the shells started. But it'll likely trap the rims on the back shield until you grab the barrels and hold them down to let the new rounds slip into the chambers. For cowboy action we get a smith to lighten the mainsprings and slightly adjust the cocking fingers so that the lighter barrel holds open without this issue. But of course that's a fine line between mainsprings light enough to hold open easily and ones that produce too many light strikes. That's likely not something you want to tackle yourself. Or if you do be prepared to buy new mainsprings.
They certainly are and are quite good but I don't want to wait 12 months for this. I may end up just having the chokes reamed out.
Will do. Thanks.
Well I took it in to Elwood Epps today to have the chokes measured. My suspicions were correct. She was full and fuller! Not useful at all for the games I play so I left it there to be cut down to 25" and recrowned with bead reinstalled. This will be a rainy day thick cover gun for woodcock over a pointing dog so a long shot there is 25 yds so the Cyl/Cyl setup should be just about right. Plan is to use 1 oz. of #8 shot. Unfortunately they are pretty backed up so will likely miss the woodcock migration but have a few other guns to step in....LoL.
I had the same issue with a 16g AYA. It started out as full/modified and when I talked to a gunsmith about opening it up he suggested that I cut it a little at a time to get to where I liked the chokes. After the second cut I had taken off 1.5 inches and it's now modified/improved with 26.5" barrels.
