Shortmag myths
- Thread starter Jayph
- Start date
No problems with feed on my Sako A7 in 300WSM. Can't say I see any difference in recoil compared to 300WM unless you change bullet weights or rifle weight. I think I might save enough powder through WSM to get two more cartridges out of a pound of powder.
I'll tune in here - I have a m70 325, and out of the 600 or so shots thru it, I have yet to have one single feeding issue.
It's accurate, reliable, and lotsa ooomph.... I like the shorter action - recoil wasn't bothersome as the stock and recoil pad on the m70 seemed to soak a lot up - however, since i had planned to do a lot of range shooting (at my range, with nobody else there to bother) i put on a Sorensen brake, and it dropped the recoil to around 25-06 levels... (64gr 4007ssc, 200gr accubond, win primer and brass)
Every gun is going to recoil different, whether its a WSM or any other mag, or not... The worst recoil in a gun that I have fired was a T3 light in 270. worse than any 338mag I have fired. Im not a fan of light guns because of their recoil.
So yes, like many say, "its an oddball caliber" (as are a lot of the WSM's and basically anything outside of a 3030, 308, 3006, 270, and a few others - you know what I mean...) but it looks like the 300WSM is gonna be the most popular of the WSM family. I got scoffed at, and my gun was the center of many coffee room jokes - until those jokers came to the range with me and saw what that "ugly little short fat bullet" could do. We sat on the bench and fired 100 and 200 yd groups, and then 400 and 500yd shots at 6" gongs - they all shot first with their pet guns and loads, 7mmRM, 300wm, and 338WM - then the "ugly little short fat bullet".... I let them shoot it, and surprisingly the bantering and jokes gave way to the locals saying "it's gonna be a great moose gun"!
Anyhow...
Ammo availability doesn't bother me as I reload, just like any other person that has a gun that isn't an 'off-the-shelf' caliber... and i have one load that I shoot for everything, therefore bullet selection isn't an issue. I have seen a lot of people bark at the unavailability of the WSM's, which i don't get as all my shooting buds that don't reload or shoot WSM's still only buy their fav loads, not what is on the shelf of any store or at a rural gas station. And the excuse of "forgetting your bullets at home", well, then....uhmmmm... if I did that I would call myself an idiot!
As for the large calibers, actually no matter WSM or any other caliber out there, a big 200 gr bullet at 3000fps is gonna do its job very well! It also seems as tho the WSM's are accurate - can't explain - but of the 4 I have shot (270,300,325WSM's) all were sub-moa.
Thats all - in summary, they make a good gun, just like most other guns/calibers out there!
It's accurate, reliable, and lotsa ooomph.... I like the shorter action - recoil wasn't bothersome as the stock and recoil pad on the m70 seemed to soak a lot up - however, since i had planned to do a lot of range shooting (at my range, with nobody else there to bother) i put on a Sorensen brake, and it dropped the recoil to around 25-06 levels... (64gr 4007ssc, 200gr accubond, win primer and brass)
Every gun is going to recoil different, whether its a WSM or any other mag, or not... The worst recoil in a gun that I have fired was a T3 light in 270. worse than any 338mag I have fired. Im not a fan of light guns because of their recoil.
So yes, like many say, "its an oddball caliber" (as are a lot of the WSM's and basically anything outside of a 3030, 308, 3006, 270, and a few others - you know what I mean...) but it looks like the 300WSM is gonna be the most popular of the WSM family. I got scoffed at, and my gun was the center of many coffee room jokes - until those jokers came to the range with me and saw what that "ugly little short fat bullet" could do. We sat on the bench and fired 100 and 200 yd groups, and then 400 and 500yd shots at 6" gongs - they all shot first with their pet guns and loads, 7mmRM, 300wm, and 338WM - then the "ugly little short fat bullet".... I let them shoot it, and surprisingly the bantering and jokes gave way to the locals saying "it's gonna be a great moose gun"!
Anyhow...
Ammo availability doesn't bother me as I reload, just like any other person that has a gun that isn't an 'off-the-shelf' caliber... and i have one load that I shoot for everything, therefore bullet selection isn't an issue. I have seen a lot of people bark at the unavailability of the WSM's, which i don't get as all my shooting buds that don't reload or shoot WSM's still only buy their fav loads, not what is on the shelf of any store or at a rural gas station. And the excuse of "forgetting your bullets at home", well, then....uhmmmm... if I did that I would call myself an idiot!
As for the large calibers, actually no matter WSM or any other caliber out there, a big 200 gr bullet at 3000fps is gonna do its job very well! It also seems as tho the WSM's are accurate - can't explain - but of the 4 I have shot (270,300,325WSM's) all were sub-moa.
Thats all - in summary, they make a good gun, just like most other guns/calibers out there!
I shoot a M70 in 7mm WSM that I picked up last November with only 15rnds thru it. It came with 25 rnds of 150gr factory Federal Fusion ammo, this stuff had a noticeable 'kick' to it so I simply made brass outta that and reloaded some 139gr Hdy BTSP IL on top of 62grs IMR4831, this load was much better . I've yet to chrono this load due to the frigid Alberta temps we're experiencing but it helped drop a cow elk on a landowners tag with one shot. I much prefer a wood stock so this synthetic blind mag one is coming of as soon as my "Nutmeg Boyds" stock arrives. I'd buy another WSM anyday..heck I'd buy 'em all!!
................well all except the WSSM's
................well all except the WSSM's
gunrunner8
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kamloops, B.C.
X2 You got that right!
No, Yes, and Yes.
Recoil is more a function of rifle weight and fit rather than cartridge design. My 300 WSM A-Bolt, which tip the scales at ~7 pounds scoped, has much greater recoil than my 9 pound M-70 in 300 Win Mag.
My A-Bolts in WSM and WSSM feed as smooth as glass.
Yes I like the Short Mags very much but only if they are in a true short-action rifle where the reduction of rifle weight can be taken advantage of. For example a T-3 chambered for a 300 WSM has no advantage at all over one chambered for a 300 Winchester as they are all built on a long action.
My favorite shortmag myth is that they can't use heavy bullets because the bullet will eat up too much case capacity.
I guess nobody has ever looked at what happens when you seat a 220gr bullet into a 300 Winchester Long Magnum.
I guess nobody has ever looked at what happens when you seat a 220gr bullet into a 300 Winchester Long Magnum.
I think the myths are being kept alive by gunsmiths who have had to fix the poorley made shortmags that were first on the market when every manufacturer decided that they had to make a short mag. I was told by a smith a few years ago to not buy a short mag because of the feed issues that he was constantly having to try to fix.
In 20 years will you be able to get ammo or brass?Can it be formed from readily available alternative brass?...............Is there a cartridge already in existence that does the same job ballistically and has been around for years? Just saying..............reinventing the wheel..............JMO........Harold
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
My favorite shortmag myth is that they can't use heavy bullets because the bullet will eat up too much case capacity.
I guess nobody has ever looked at what happens when you seat a 220gr bullet into a 300 Winchester Long Magnum.
Yes the 300 WinMag has a short neck, one slight disadvantage if you want to call it that, however, it will always do better than the WSM with 200 and 220 grainers.
shortaction
CGN Regular
- Location
- Manitoulin Island, Ontario
Really? The Hornady 6th edition reloading manual shows the 300 Win Mag with a 25" barrel and 220 gr bullet with a max velocity of 2700 fps with 2 powders and the 300 WSM with a 24" barrel and 220 gr bullet with a max velocity of 2650 fps with 6 different powders.
So the 300 Win Mag with 25" barrel does 2700fps with 71.9gr or 74.7gr of powder.
The 300 WSM with 24" barrel does 2650fps with 61.2, 62.1, 62.4, 63.4, 66.2, & 70.0 grs of powder.
Hmmm?
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
X2
When a long bullet when seated to the same depth in a short cartridge as in a long one, the short cartridge will always loose a greater percentage of it's total powder capacity compared to the long cartridge. A long bullet can be seated long if you've lengthened the lead of your chamber, and when the shank of the bullet does not intrude into the powder capacity of the case, you will observe all the cartridge's velocity potential. When I had my .308 built, it was with the lead long enough that a 200 gr MK could be seated with only the boat-tail extending below the neck. The result is that I can achieve a hair below 2700 fps from the 28" barrel; not too shabby for a short little .308. Although guys who are married to light for caliber bullets might never run into the problem of long bullets reducing the powder capacity of their short cartridges; to suggest that a .375 Ruger is the equal of a .375 H&H when both are loaded with 350 gr or 380 gr bullets, that a .350 Remington is the equal of a .35 Whelen when both are loaded with 250s, or that a .300 WSM is the equal of a long case .300 when both are loaded with 220 or 240 gr bullets, is not reasonable.
The short mag concept has been around for quite some time. Look at Remington with their 6.5 and 350 rem mags. It's just now with powder technologies improving, the short mags can strut their stuff. I still use a 350 Rem and love the little beast. With some of the new powders, she sings quite nicely. Short action Ruger 77MK II with a carbine length barrel, accurate little sledgehammer she be.
- Location
- Haliburton County, Central Ontario
Correct. The .350 Rem Mag (the 'original' short magnum...ahead of it's time IMO) exceeds the ballistic performance of the .35 Whelen with any bullet weight every time. Handily.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Correct. The .350 Rem Mag (the 'original' short magnum...ahead of it's time IMO) exceeds the ballistic performance of the .35 Whelen with any bullet weight every time. Handily.
That certainly wasn't my observation when I had one; the Whelen beat the Remington by 100+ fps with 250 and 270 gr bullets. But the .350 was years ahead of its time and it remains a well balanced hunting cartridge, despite the small disadvantage.
The recoiling rifle has the same momentum, not kinetic energy, as the bullet plus the powder charge. The calculations can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_recoil
To balance energy, you would have to take into account losses due to heat, friction, etc., as well as recoil.
Hatcher's Notebook has a very good writeup on the subject.
