Shorty M305

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fleabaggins

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I apologise in advance for this query, as I am sure there is a thread about this on here, I just have not been able to find it.
I have heard rumblings about the "notorious" un reliability of the short barrelled Norinco M305/M14 rifle versus the standard length version.
Can anyone shed some light on what these issues are supposed to be, or direct me to a thread discussing this?
I am contemplating buying one of these rifles, and like the idea of a shorter barrel, but not if there are any sort of feed/function/etc issues with it.
Thanks.
 
Unreliable is probably the wrong wording.

THE ODD ONE has been known to have barrel threading issues, offset cylinder holes.

All, and I mean all, these rifles should be checked to see if both lugs are engaging evenly, there have been a few where the right lug sheered.(full length rifles included)

Long or short rifles. Some flash suppressors are put on at an angle, oprod guide is loose and sometimes oprods themselves are not perfectly straight.

A good majority of the shorties are as good as the regular length rifles. There are some with thousands of rounds through them where the owner has done nothing but clean it and grease it.
 
Marstar, one of the major importers of Norinco has gone on record as saying there are problems with the 18.5" m305/m14s and they are NOT bringing them in. John, owner of Marstar, posting as johnone, has made such comments in his forum.

I don't presume to know what the other importers do, but if Marstar (whose reps go to the factories, etc) chooses NOT to import the 18.5" rifles, to me that says a lot.
 
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I bought several shorties from SFRC and a couple other dealers from eastern canada and none of the ones I received had any major issues.
I bought 2 or 3 from a western canadian dealer and 2 of the three were problematic. My guess is different importers got good ones and with the good ones were a few not so good ones. Some similar issues have been found with some standard barrel versions from same suspect import batch.
I think the majority of the factory shorties out there are serving their owners quite well. But I do understand ones hesitation and desire to get some clarity on the issue before making a purchase.
 
45ACPKING said:
I bought several shorties from SFRC and a couple other dealers from eastern canada and none of the ones I received had any major issues.
I bought 2 or 3 from a western canadian dealer and 2 of the three were problematic. My guess is different importers got good ones and with the good ones were a few not so good ones. Some similar issues have been found with some standard barrel versions from same suspect import batch.
I think the majority of the factory shorties out there are serving their owners quite well. But I do understand ones hesitation and desire to get some clarity on the issue before making a purchase.
Click to expand...

And sometimes, yer #### will fall off! :nest:

Cheers and keep helping the newbies out there.

Barney
 
Shill much?

nntw said:
Marstar, one of the major importers of Norinco has gone on record as saying there are problems with the 18.5" m305/m14s and they are NOT bringing them in. John, owner of Marstar, posting as johnone, has made such comments in his forum.

I don't presume to know what the other importers do, but if Marstar (whose reps go to the factories, etc) chooses NOT to import the 18.5" rifles, to me that says a lot.
Click to expand...
 
The best option is to buy from someone that warranties what they sell and then have someone confident in dealing with the M14 platform look at it.expect minor issues return it if it has critical issues.

In a perfect world the dealers would have all remaining shorties checked before selling them.

nntw said:
Fair enough- accepted.

If anything I think I am an antishill for Marstar ....

but I really would worry about buying an 18.5"; wouldn't know what to expect as ok
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Here's something for anyone considering their first chinese M14 type rifle.

Common issues that we have come to accept and deal with are as follows and aren't critical to safe operation.
Rear sight function is hit n miss and commonly replaced
Flash hider front sight bases are commonly not on center
Barrels are commonly "slightly" off index
Stock fit can need some tweaking.

The above issues are things we have come to accept as non warranty issues.... It's an m14 for under 500 bucks.

Bigger issues that aren't as common are receiver machining flaws, brittle barrel shoulders, brittle bolts, very loose oprods.... These are FAR less common issues that warranties are made for.
 
I picked up a shorty for an awsome price, greased her up as per Barney, discovered it had zero evidence of having been fired and went to the range. The only problems I found were from reloaded ammo that I had picked up: surplus 7.62 runs fine. I've stripped her down and gave her a good once over to find that the barrel is out of index but within Springfield specs so that can wait until I can make it to a clinic. What can't wait is the loose op rod guide... I'm debating whether our not I should use steel epoxy or red locktite.

If I had bought a Springfield, I'd be ticked something fierce but as it stands, I am quite happy with the fact that my #### won't fall off. ;-)
 
My experiences with 2011, 2012, 2013 shorties

-head space issues with every newer shorty I have handled, every last one has chambered a .308 field gauge and most chambered a 7.62 before firing a single round. one blew up in my face.
-bent op rods from factory,
-trigger failures (uncontrolled double taps or it won't release the sear when you pull the trigger)
-off indexed barrels,
-rear sites falling apart,
-gas cylinders that just won't stay tight for a reasonable time even with shimming
-bolt failures
-just handled one that failed a tilt test because the op rod was jamming on the top of the barrel, had to man handle it to get the bolt back and I could not get it back far enough to engage the bolt catch, not that it mattered since it was jammed in position. the guide was loose as could be and the op rod was straight, so im not sure if its the op rod or barrel at fault, the gun was hanging on the store wall, buddy wanted to buy it so I looked it over....

I have yet to see one without what I would consider a major issue that requires new parts that could cost as much as 1/2 or more then the gun costed originally to fix; the count is now at 8.
 
LordEvilPepper said:
My experiences with 2011, 2012, 2013 shorties

-head space issues with every newer shorty I have handled, every last one has chambered a .308 field gauge and most chambered a 7.62 before firing a single round. one blew up in my face.
-bent op rods from factory,
-trigger failures (uncontrolled double taps or it won't release the sear when you pull the trigger)
-off indexed barrels,
-rear sites falling apart,
-gas cylinders that just won't stay tight for a reasonable time even with shimming
-bolt failures
-just handled one that failed a tilt test because the op rod was jamming on the top of the barrel, had to man handle it to get the bolt back and I could not get it back far enough to engage the bolt catch, not that it mattered since it was jammed in position. the guide was loose as could be and the op rod was straight, so im not sure if its the op rod or barrel at fault, the gun was hanging on the store wall, buddy wanted to buy it so I looked it over....

I have yet to see one without what I would consider a major issue that requires new parts that could cost as much as 1/2 or more then the gun costed originally to fix; the count is now at 8.
Click to expand...

hate to say it, but for the most part, with the import years you are commenting on, my findings were quite similar.
many customers were complaining about time lines and such and even starting threads on here to try and speed me up. every one of those major problem rifles except for a couple that I didn't want to work on, were fixed up to full standards at my cost for the new parts to make them work as they should safely. a great many of my former customers with these import date rifles, probably have no idea their rifles are full of new parts as I never bothered to bill anyone due to the time it took to get em right.
I much prefer getting a standard 2007/2009 or earlier and sendin it to my good friend Joe at dlask arms for a chop and thread ;)
I did not find many headspace issues however.
the vast majority of the 2009 and newer rifles I have used the Clymer gauge set on (after verifying even lug bearing) showed headspace values on average between 1.636" to 1.638"
which, is acceptable and mostly within 7.62nato "match" headspace.
headspace has never really been a big thing, although anytime I see a rifle over 1.640" I strongly recommend nato spec ammo only and if .308 commercial loads are used, watch for pressure signs religiously

I've met some of the 'questionable" rifles that were bang on as well. one of the nicest Chinese trigger groups I've pulled off a new rifle came from a 2012 shorty and it's a keeper rifle in my safe as it shoots very well with the basics of mods.
 
Interesting. I picked one up on the weekend but only took it out of the box once to clean it up a bit. Not sure when I'm gonna fire it, but got a crap load of surplus 762 ammo on a trade years ago. Time to use some of it up. So far everything looks mechanically sounds and is smooth enough
 
I bought a shorty then a regular length. The regular length M305 is the better rifle in terms of fit and finish.

The 18.5" M305 rifle's trigger group is proving to be problematic in aftermaket stocks
 
I own 2 shorties, the first one I bought had a massively over-indexed barrel, so needless to say the front iron was useless. I threw some optics on it but in time it proved to be unsafe to continue using. So now it's a parts rifle for my new shorty.

So that being said, I took a gamble and ordered another one, this time from Wolverine Supplies, and was not disappointed. Haven't had a single issue with the new one aside from a very tight fitting stock, but that'll sort itself out with time or maybe a little sanding.

I think what it comes down to is how lucky you are when you buy one, you'll either get one that's in good shape or not at all. Also in my opinion if you're going pick one of these up, get it from a retailer who's willing to or by policy will inspect the rifle before even taking your money to ensure you're getting at least a usable firearm. Marstar, Wolverine Supplies and a few others do inspect these M305 shorties before they pack and ship them, props to them :). They do not, however, function test them as far as I know.
 
JetRanger said:
...What can't wait is the loose op rod guide... I'm debating whether our not I should use steel epoxy or red locktite....
Click to expand...


There's a sticky on that. Peen the bossed area where the guide goes. The peening raises the metal slightly to allow a tight fit. I wouldn't use expoxy.
 
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