I bought a Shultz and Larson single shot bolt action .22LR bull barrel olympic style rifle. The chamber where the round sits seems to be shot out, too large. I am having trouble ejecting the brass as it seems to be swollen. I had the bright idea to insert a new piece of bbl in place of the shot out spot. Bore out the old chamber and insert a new piece. A machinist friend told me the bull bbl. is harden steel and my idea would be a no go. The rifle wasn't expensive but I like it as it has open peep sights and is kind of cool. Looking for thoughts, advice on my problem.
Shot out .22LR
- Thread starter rustynut1
- Start date
.22 barrels are not hardened steel. As far as that goes, neither are centerfire barrels (usually stress relieved, which results in a rather low rating on the hardness scale). I have heard of chambers being sleeved. It would have to be done very carefully, to keep things aligned.
Is the barrel a separate piece, or are the receiver and barrel integral? If the barrel is separate, setting it back and rechambering would be an option.
Is the barrel a separate piece, or are the receiver and barrel integral? If the barrel is separate, setting it back and rechambering would be an option.
I looked at a S&L on TradeEx's site. Looks as if the barrel and receiver are integral. Setting back and rechambering may not be an option.
Doubt that the chamber is "shot out". Really hard extraction could indicate a damaged chamber, though. A careful inspection of the barrel is in order.
Doubt that the chamber is "shot out". Really hard extraction could indicate a damaged chamber, though. A careful inspection of the barrel is in order.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I have a Winchester Model 490. I got it when I was 15. After many years of occasional use in NS & Ontario, I was posted to Moose Jaw.
Eleven years of gopher shooting and small game hunting took it's toll. The sear engagement became tenuous, especially when it was dirty!
I loaned it out several times for other gopher shooters to use as well over the years.
I suspect the barrel was "shot out" about 1 inch in front of the chamber I could see a mark in the rifling and 90 degrees to the grooves. With continuous use, both sides of this anomaly grew as both arms got longer and it ended in a kind of upside-down horse shoe shape. The open end at the six o'clock position. No amount of solvent cleaning could remove it. Accuracy started to suffer and got gradually worse as time went on.
I think this mark was caused by flame cutting.
Got a new barrel & problem solved.
Am I out to lunch on this theory folks???
Eleven years of gopher shooting and small game hunting took it's toll. The sear engagement became tenuous, especially when it was dirty!
I loaned it out several times for other gopher shooters to use as well over the years.
I suspect the barrel was "shot out" about 1 inch in front of the chamber I could see a mark in the rifling and 90 degrees to the grooves. With continuous use, both sides of this anomaly grew as both arms got longer and it ended in a kind of upside-down horse shoe shape. The open end at the six o'clock position. No amount of solvent cleaning could remove it. Accuracy started to suffer and got gradually worse as time went on.
I think this mark was caused by flame cutting.
Got a new barrel & problem solved.
Am I out to lunch on this theory folks???
Brutus, the example you give is not unusual for a rifle with hundreds of thousands of round through it. Back in the day our club picked up six Suhl built KKW rifles along with a couple of other makers in a bunch that were offered for sale by another club. These rifles were for out junior shooters. In hind sight they were not ideally suited for use by the younger juniors. They were to long and heavy.
I noticed that some of the rifles had been sleeved. That was one of my first experiences with decent quality sleeves. They shot very well. Almost as well as some of the match rifles I had.
This prompted me to take a much closer look at all of the rifles. Most were just fine. When I bought the lot I looked at a couple, which I chose randomly and they were very good indeed so I didn't inspect each of them individually.
We weren't using all of the rifles and the KKWs were not amongst the favorites because of weight factors. One of the sleeved rifles was a KKW. This is where I started. Sure enough of the five other rifles two more needed work. One had a nitrited throat that was at least two inches beyond where it started. The other had worn rifling and pitting. Because of the damage just setting back the barrels wouldn't have corrected any of the issues so they both got new liners and later became favorites of some of the larger juniors.
It has been my experience to see worn out barrels on 22rf rifles occasionally. The above example is very understandable. Another time I ran into this I knew up front the rifles had issues and all ten of them did. what can you expect from any bolt action repeater that was used back in the sixties at carnivals to win prizes. Some of those pieces were smooth bores for 90% of the tubes. All of them were sleeved and had the extractors changed and all shot just as well as when they were new.
It quite literally takes a few hundred thousand rounds to erode the throats in a 22rf with standard velocity ammo. Even then that is just the beginning of the issue. It takes at least that many to make the bore whimsical as to accuracy.
Usually most 22rf rifles will have mechanical failures that put them out of commission long before they get shot out. Some though, if they are maintained properly, will chug right along to the point they have worn out bores.
The average shooter and even most incessant shooters will not be able to shoot out a bore in their lifespans. It can happen if a couple of back to back sycophants come into possession of said rifle and have pockets deep enough to afford that much ammo.
I noticed that some of the rifles had been sleeved. That was one of my first experiences with decent quality sleeves. They shot very well. Almost as well as some of the match rifles I had.
This prompted me to take a much closer look at all of the rifles. Most were just fine. When I bought the lot I looked at a couple, which I chose randomly and they were very good indeed so I didn't inspect each of them individually.
We weren't using all of the rifles and the KKWs were not amongst the favorites because of weight factors. One of the sleeved rifles was a KKW. This is where I started. Sure enough of the five other rifles two more needed work. One had a nitrited throat that was at least two inches beyond where it started. The other had worn rifling and pitting. Because of the damage just setting back the barrels wouldn't have corrected any of the issues so they both got new liners and later became favorites of some of the larger juniors.
It has been my experience to see worn out barrels on 22rf rifles occasionally. The above example is very understandable. Another time I ran into this I knew up front the rifles had issues and all ten of them did. what can you expect from any bolt action repeater that was used back in the sixties at carnivals to win prizes. Some of those pieces were smooth bores for 90% of the tubes. All of them were sleeved and had the extractors changed and all shot just as well as when they were new.
It quite literally takes a few hundred thousand rounds to erode the throats in a 22rf with standard velocity ammo. Even then that is just the beginning of the issue. It takes at least that many to make the bore whimsical as to accuracy.
Usually most 22rf rifles will have mechanical failures that put them out of commission long before they get shot out. Some though, if they are maintained properly, will chug right along to the point they have worn out bores.
The average shooter and even most incessant shooters will not be able to shoot out a bore in their lifespans. It can happen if a couple of back to back sycophants come into possession of said rifle and have pockets deep enough to afford that much ammo.
I have re barreled a couple of target .22's that were shot out... when the barrel is well cleaned you could see a different colored area at 6 o'clock for about 6 inches... that's how it shows up... powder residue left by the previous shot gets shot over again and again... it takes about 150,000 rounds and slight accuracy is lost.
Installing a quality .22 liner and chambering it with a match reamer would make this rifle a superb shooter again...
Installing a quality .22 liner and chambering it with a match reamer would make this rifle a superb shooter again...
I have the rifle back. It seems that it is part of the design of the gun. Maybe this gun should be shooting .22 shorts. There doesn't appear to be any ridge for the brass that can be seen. The way the bolt works the round comes back into the bolt a fraction of an inch. The brass swells up at the rim of the brass and has trouble extracting. The .22 short or a sub sonic round may have less snap and keep the brass from swelling up. I was shooting those cheap bulk yellow jackets, I have a selection of expensive .22LR I can try, going to try subsonic and .22 Short If I can get them. It came from TradeX but a few years ago. I have a set of telescopic gauges for measuring this kind of thing but they don't go down to .22 size. Thanks for the advice on this.
Yup, something is definitely wrong. If it is chambered for shorts or long only cartridges that could also be the issue. Usually if they are only chambered for shorts nothing else will fit in the chamber I have seen more than a few rifles chambered for long cartridges that will chamber long rifle cartridges.
If you're rifle is having the issues you describe, you should be wearing shooting glasses. Sooner or later something will give and you will get some bits coming back at you.
If you're rifle is having the issues you describe, you should be wearing shooting glasses. Sooner or later something will give and you will get some bits coming back at you.
Hmmm.... Good idea to check, esp if the marks seem intentional, rather than random.
Sleeving a chamber isn't impossible, just a fiddly way to spend time in the shop, for a fellow that has a lathe and some knowhow. Plenty have been relined with a section of brake Line from the auto parts store. As above, not hardened. Would be damn near impossible to drill ream, rifle, etc., if it were hard.
Liners apparently are available again through Brownell's, as of last year or so, as apparently, the makers of the most commonly used ones, Redman, saw fit to pay up for their Export Registration finally. So i have read. A phone call will sort that out. Ask to speak with the Export desk. The default on the website is that everything cannot be exported, you have to talk to a live person. If you want one by any of the few other sources out there, you have to pretty much rely upon luck or redneck willingness to chance sticking one in the mail (unlikely, as the fines for getting caught are pretty severe). Redman liners are essentially hydraulic tubing that has been button rifled. Results vary, but generally they serve. Not in the same class as the liners made by Parker and such in the days of old, which often shot better than the original bores on many of the target guns of the day.
Making your own liner by turning down a barrel is possible, but a lot of work and fraught with the risk of mucking up the project while it is on the lathe, resulting in looking for another barrel to turn down. Less work to fit a new barrel, if one can be found.
Cheers
Trev
I took the gun to the range this morning. I shot those bulk yellow jackets, some CCI subsonic, and three brands of target rounds. None would eject. The first two rounds fired were yellow jackets and one of the first two the ridge ballooned out round, flat edge was roundish on the edge. Most of the rounds had to be worked at to get out of the chamber, stuck fast and difficult to get out. I think when the bbl. was a little cold the first two rounds were the worst. None of the other brass was deformed near as bad. Looking at the chamber it does not appear round so shot out seems to be the verdict. I will look into getting a liner for the gun. I kind of like the gun, big heavy bull bbl and peep sights are cool. The trigger on the gun is a dream. I didn't try .22 shorts. I tried to fit a .22 Mag and it wouldn't even go in the bbl. that surprised me.
Ron Smith, a very highly reputed barrel maker in Wimbourne AB not only makes target grade center-fire barrels but also makes 22 cal barrel liners and installs them after drilling out the old bore. He might sell the liner to you so you can have a local gunsmith or machine shop do the installation for you. Sorry but I have no info on cost.
contact Ron at RKS Enterprises Ltd. 403 - 631 - 2405.
contact Ron at RKS Enterprises Ltd. 403 - 631 - 2405.
