Shot placement, bullets, rifles...

sealhunter

sealhunter

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I have heard it said that speed kills... As it comes to hunting, fps is a variable, but not the constant...the constant is shot placement, IMO

With the types of bullets available today, the thoughts of just a few years ago, are challenged and changed each day at the range and each fall in the field.

I have shot animals with a lot of rifles...the 45/70 being a main one...

I don't care what I put in my 45/70... At 100 yards, a properly placed 100 gr tsx will do everything when it comes to the deers, elk, moose, etc. It took my brain. While to get this....but having done. Lot of bullet research in the past few years, it is an undeniable fact..

Shooting 140 gr ttsx out of my old 7mm -08 taught me a lot... 120 gr ttsx taught me even more.

The most I ever learned was from my 30-30...
I learned range, limitation, and how to stay within both, sometimes meaning an animal walked away.

So now I'm shooting a 270 wsm...

The bullet variety that's available today is mind boggling...and has vastly changed what we thought were the limitations or advantages of many rifle and calibre...

While I don't think the 200 yrd and in has changed much...when you get into relatively flat 400 yrd shooters, the advantages of one over another has never been harder to identify IMO, if given the same ball park range, and velocity just different calibre....

Any thoughts?
 
You said it in the first sentence......"the constant is shot placement"
There has been a constant battle of words between hunters and their theory of
shot placement, speed, bullet size, bullet construction, entry wound only verses an
in and out hole wound channel.
I believe that a heavy smack, hard and heavy knocks them down just as much or
more so than a fast bullet travelling right on through.
This 308 Norma Mag of my dearly departed dad has proven this to me enough to
convince me of this theory.
Tiny bullets make tiny holes, big bullets do the opposite.
Here we go again..................;)
 
kamlooky said:
You said it in the first sentence......"the constant is shot placement"
There has been a constant battle of words between hunters and their theory of
shot placement, speed, bullet size, bullet construction, entry wound only verses an
in and out hole wound channel.
I believe that a heavy smack, hard and heavy knocks them down just as much or
more so than a fast bullet travelling right on through.
This 308 Norma Mag of my dearly departed dad has proven this to me enough to
convince me of this theory.
Tiny bullets make tiny holes, big bullets do the opposite.
Here we go again..................;)
Click to expand...

So I guess it comes down to how much the size of the hole going through the heart and lungs makes a difference to animal quickly dying...

I say of the legal big game calibres in any province, that each, if punched through the heart and lungs, will do just fine....

Furthermore,... If the shot only partially hits the vitals, one lung....I don't believe he variance in bullet size is enough to change the outcome when talking of big game calibres...

Finally, if bigger bullets meant more effectiveness in killing a deer or a moose, we see differences between the the deer shot in the vitals with a 375 HH and a 243.... I say if I post a video of 20 dead deer that have all been shot in the vitals, you, nor the deer, will know what calibre bullet hit it ( as far as the effectiveness is concerned)
 
There are a few more variables that you know play into the perfect shot.
Bumping a twig, bit of wind, poor powder, bent tip on the lead bullet.......
A dead animal is just that.
I have seen some dead animals with so so shot placement.
So, so so that quarters have been ruined.
Some shoot through the shoulders and the results are the big splat.
I shot a big bull with the rifle I just mentioned above. The shot was
less than a hundred yards, Hornady 165 grain Interlocks, IMR 4350 at
around 2900 fps. I don't have the formula close to me. Nubbed him behind
his right elbow and he fell right there. Back knees bent, arse went down,
groaned and flopped. He didn't even try to get up. This bullet did not go
right through him. I found the bullet in the chest cavity and I still have it.
I don't know why that bullet didn't go right through and it did mushroom
nicely. I don't know if the same results would occur with lighter calibers.
I am sold on 30 calibers as they offer a world of good.
Even the turdy turdy if used in accordance with some wisdom.
Cheers.
 
kamlooky said:
There are a few more variables that you know play into the perfect shot.
Bumping a twig, bit of wind, poor powder, bent tip on the lead bullet.......
A dead animal is just that.
I have seen some dead animals with so so shot placement.
So, so so that quarters have been ruined.
Some shoot through the shoulders and the results are the big splat.
I shot a big bull with the rifle I just mentioned above. The shot was
less than a hundred yards, Hornady 165 grain Interlocks, IMR 4350 at
around 2900 fps. I don't have the formula close to me. Nubbed him behind
his right elbow and he fell right there. Back knees bent, arse went down,
groaned and flopped. He didn't even try to get up. This bullet did not go
right through him. I found the bullet in the chest cavity and I still have it.
I don't know why that bullet didn't go right through and it did mushroom
nicely. I don't know if the same results would occur with lighter calibers.
I am sold on 30 calibers as they offer a world of good.
Even the turdy turdy if used in accordance with some wisdom.
Cheers.
Click to expand...

I took my big cow moose with a 140 gr bullet. Done on the spot....

:D

Put it where it needs to go, they will fall
 
I am not willing to jump into a fray that will result in me being beat up.
However, I have lived for more than 6½ decades now.
I started hunting early in my second decade.
I have lived in BC most of my life [2½ years in Alberta]
I have hunted practically all game available in these locales.
I have shot all 3 species of Deer, Elk, Moose, Caribou, Sheep, Goat, Bears [except polar]
Bison, Etc.
Rifles have been chambered in everything from the 220 Swift up to the 375 H&H.
Shots have ranged from 15 feet to 600+ yards.
When it comes to killing game, Bullet placement is #1!!
#2 is a bullet that can be counted on to do the job properly once it arrives on target.
While they will get the job done, I am not too fond of small bore diameters on large game.
But any rifle from 6.5mm up will neatly dispatch any North American game animal.
Before the 6mm and 25 cal guys start hyperventilating here, Please reread the sentence above this one.
For all round use, I lean toward rifles of 7mm -338.
Every once in a while, someone tries to infuse some barnyard effluent by stating that a double-lunged animal took them on a 3 mile chase before dropping, or was lost.
I don't buy it!! I have enough animals shot through both lungs behind me to know what happens. Death, and relatively quickly at that.
A lot of field-position practice makes the difference. Knowing one's limitations [And rifle/chambering limitations] are important as well.
Regards, Eagleye.
 
I find this thread interesting.

My brother shot at a buck at approx. 120 yards this past season with his 243. When he shot at the buck, it didn’t buckle, move in any way showing that it had been hit. Didn’t even hear a sound from the impact of the bullet. I saw him shoot at it and when he went to see for any blood or any sign of a hit there was nothing to be seen. No blood at all in the snow at all from where the shot had been taken He followed the track for a few steps and didn’t see anything. So we both thought he had missed the buck and yet couldn’t believe it.

Two days later he went back to the same location to find crows and coyotes not far from where he had shot at the buck. He was very disappointed to find the buck no more then 60 yards from where the shot was taken.

We were discussing this the other day and my brother was saying, if he had hit the buck with his 338 Win mag, there wouldn’t have been any guessing on a hit or miss.

With all this said , I wondering if I may have the same problem with my 260 Rem. I know I will never make this mistake again in verifying to make sure the deer isn’t down...
 
Yes Eagleye size does matter, as do lungs. Met a girl once, she claimed she could suck a golf ball through a garden hose. Good set of lungs, now what where we talking about. Something about limitations, i lost my train of thought.:D
 
350tracker said:
I find this thread interesting.

My brother shot at a buck at approx. 120 yards this past season with his 243. When he shot at the buck, it didn’t buckle, move in any way showing that it had been hit. Didn’t even hear a sound from the impact of the bullet. I saw him shoot at it and when he went to see for any blood or any sign of a hit there was nothing to be seen. No blood at all in the snow at all from where the shot had been taken He followed the track for a few steps and didn’t see anything. So we both thought he had missed the buck and yet couldn’t believe it.

Two days later he went back to the same location to find crows and coyotes not far from where he had shot at the buck. He was very disappointed to find the buck no more then 60 yards from where the shot was taken.

We were discussing this the other day and my brother was saying, if he had hit the buck with his 338 Win mag, there wouldn’t have been any guessing on a hit or miss.

With all this said , I wondering if I may have the same problem with my 260 Rem. I know I will never make this mistake again in verifying to make sure the deer isn’t down...
Click to expand...

That's a real bummer, but I think you two know the real answer to this one. The problem wasn't with the arrow; the problem was with the indian.
 
The only thing I have to add to Eagleye's reply is I, myself, perfer a caliber with enough bullet weight to punch a hole right thru. Doesn't kill anything any deader, but if, by the off chance everything doesn't turn out perfect, an exit hole leaves a better blood trail than an entrance hole.
 
350tracker said:
Yep, no arguing here...:(
Click to expand...

Been there; the rack in my avatar pic being my best example. Two shots, 130 yards as the buck tried to flee across a beaver dam. The cartridge was a .270, 130 gr. PSP Core-Lokt. No reaction to the shots, the deer never missed a stride. No blood, nothing for the first 60-70 yards. I almost turned back. But one last effort revealed a speck of blood, which led to drops, splats, a pool and finally a dead buck with 2 holes in him, 2" apart and neatly behind the shoulder.

Different deer with the same load and same shot placement, were bang-flops. So it goes.
 
I'd like to add that you can make a list of the most popular N.A. hunting cartridges for a given application, and they don't need anything more than a simple jacketed bullet to be effective.
 
senior said:
The only thing I have to add to Eagleye's reply is I, myself, perfer a caliber with enough bullet weight to punch a hole right thru. Doesn't kill anything any deader, but if, by the off chance everything doesn't turn out perfect, an exit hole leaves a better blood trail than an entrance hole.
Click to expand...

He he... and you are pushing the .30-30 for a young shooter who has the BIGGEST chance of not having everything turn out perfect?... .30-06, .308, or any other .30 cal bullet with a pointed tip and better charge is much more llikely to pass through and leave a blood trail than a .30-30

And yes, shot placement is key.... practicing and developing shooting ability is more important than any other factor.... within reason of course
 
350tracker said:
I find this thread interesting.

My brother shot at a buck at approx. 120 yards this past season with his 243. When he shot at the buck, it didn’t buckle, move in any way showing that it had been hit. Didn’t even hear a sound from the impact of the bullet. I saw him shoot at it and when he went to see for any blood or any sign of a hit there was nothing to be seen. No blood at all in the snow at all from where the shot had been taken He followed the track for a few steps and didn’t see anything. So we both thought he had missed the buck and yet couldn’t believe it.

Two days later he went back to the same location to find crows and coyotes not far from where he had shot at the buck. He was very disappointed to find the buck no more then 60 yards from where the shot was taken.

We were discussing this the other day and my brother was saying, if he had hit the buck with his 338 Win mag, there wouldn’t have been any guessing on a hit or miss.

With all this said , I wondering if I may have the same problem with my 260 Rem. I know I will never make this mistake again in verifying to make sure the deer isn’t down...
Click to expand...

This is a saddening story.
You were sure you hit it and only followed the tracks for a few steps?
Then find the deer only sixty yards away?
And do tell here?
Did he cut his tag?
I sure would of, infact, in shame to boot.
Good job on this one........jeeesh!
 
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