shot placement
- Thread starter Hoggun
- Start date
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
Very informative thread! Learned a whole lot in a few minutes about how to achieve a good shot placement especially from John Y Canuck.
What is the scoop on ruined meat near the bullet channel? What is happening with a high speed bullet that a low speed bullet does not do?
high speed generally means more meat damage if anything when it comes to rifle hunting I like slower moving cartridges with heavy bullets a .577 snider with a .590" 450gr bullet will put anything in north America down and do so without a lot of meat damage and will not turn organs into jello
This reply and the one from 45ACPKING are very helpful for us new hunters. We could learn from our own mistakes but it is so much better to learn
from others mistakes. Without people being willing to speak up about what happens when things go bad, we would have to learn on our own.
Very eager to see pics of your woods bison and grizzly hunts with your .571 snider.... Yikes....
This reply and the one from 45ACPKING are very helpful for us new hunters. We could learn from our own mistakes but it is so much better to learn
from others mistakes. Without people being willing to speak up about what happens when things go bad, we would have to learn on our own.
Pretty much any Hunter on here who tells you they never lost one hasn't done enough hunting.....
It's a crappy experience to say the least..... Welcome to the sport....
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
I would not feel out of place on bison grizz it could be done but id want someone with a stopping rifle just in case
Sure, by a people who knew nothing about conservation and cared little about animals that ran off and suffered over the needs to feed their families....
Times have changed and we have more options now.... Shot placement is very important, but so is the appropriate tool for the job is as well......
The very fact that a person would only hunt with an outdated sub standard cartridge if they only had something better on them as backup speaks volumes of how much confidence they have in their first choice....
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
no need for a back up with bison just grizz the fact that there's really no way to reload the snider fast is why i would like a back up with something that has big ole teeth and claws. a .590" bullet that weights over an ounce is no laughing matter it hits like a sledge hammer leaving a nice big hole.
not everyone has magnumitis we are talking about a .590" bullet that's more what most .30 cals will expand to even at the relatively slow speed of around 1400fps the 450 or so grain projectile will keep on trucking i have a hard time stopping these "outdated sub standard cartridges" in 3 foot of compressed rubber mulch(it will stop most .30 caliber rounds i have tried so far) putting a round like this into the boiler room of a moose or bison would do the job well
sorry to the op for the thread hijacking but this come up every time someone talk about shot placement
It all goes hand in hand.... At 1400 fps, you are going to get little and or slow expansion.... And, especially on the bison with their thick hide, likely insufficient penetration..... You can make the perfect shot and it may not reach the organ you isn't red it to hit....
I don't have "magnumitis" as you suggest.... I have taken everything From coyote to black bear to hogs to elk and have never even owned a rifle with a magnum designation.... That being said, I have never stalked deer with a 22 magnum or a bison with a 100 plus year old single shot black powder round either..... There is a happy medium....
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
the beauty of a round this big is no expansion needed its pre expanded and you can't hunt deer with a rimfire
So what opens up the wound channel?..... Have you ever heard of hydrostatic shock?.... Heck, a 12 gauge slug has better velocity, is bigger out of the gate pre expansion and yet still, nobody in their right mind would make it their hunting rig of choice for grizzly or bison.....
I also see that you suggest .223 in FMJ for yotes...... I think you need to do some research on expansion, hydrostatic shock and well, maybe a few other things....
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
the wound channel is from the massive slug that just entered said game a wide bullet with a wide flat meplat never said a snider would be my first choice but i did say i would not feel out of place with one. I find the fast moving 12ga slugs break up after entering game as the lead is too soft the slower moving slugs stay intact and pass through. hydrostatic shock is needed when you are using a small caliber round large slower moving rounds kill by punching through leaving a large hole in its place
as for fmj on coyotes put it in the heart/lungs it does the job its not that difficult an animal can't live without both lungs or a hole in its heart
next you are going to say a crossbow bolt moving at 300fps with a 1 1/18 wide broadhead is not up to the task
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I am not going to argue with the uninformed and unpracticed... But I will say that an expanding round with sufficient velocity opens a wound channel much larger than the actual caliber and its subsequent expansion....
A perfect shot with a .22 cal FMJ will do exactly as you say... It will leave a .22 cal hole in said lung.... Leaving the animal to run away and suffer a painful, long death....
To make matters worse, you now throw in a broadhead from a crossbow as a comparison?.... Now you arn't even talking the same killing mechanism..... Shock versus hemmorhage..... Completely different shape and design as well..... Not even remotely designed to do the same thing......
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
I still use 45-70, and even 44-40 on deer, and black bear. They work well, just don't stretch them, and make good placement a priority. With the 44-40 particularly, you must use rib shots, but every shot, save one (black bear) has been a pass through so far. Took the 45-70 for moose this year, but the moose were afraid of it.
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
but you are arguing I have a good number of deer under my belt taken with everything from rifle to shotgun(slugs and buckshot) and crossbow I can't count how many coyotes that I have dropped(.22lr and shotgun mostly) and then there's the countless small game and pest birds hopefully next year a moose will be added(been eyeing a 9.3x62 for the job)
Ok... So why a bison with a .571 snider yet a Wagner for a moose?..... You are pretty much proving my point....
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
like I said a snider would never be my first choice the 9.3x62 is no hot rod though but its a good all around cartridge
The 9.3 x 62 is no hot rod on moose?.... And you say .571 snider is OK for anything in North America?....Ok, done hitting my head on a brick wall here....
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
btw its .577 snider for caliber/cartridge length the .577 sniders speed is perfect(the longer .577 3" nitro push's a 750gr bullet at 2000fps so 450gr at 1400fps is not so bad) and it will do the job for North America as long as the shot is placed right.
but the 9.3x62 can travel the world taking some of the biggest and toughest game it has to offer but it does not do so by pushing a projectile 3000+ FPS(hot rod) its a good all around cartridge like I said it can be loaded for north American game(soft points) or put some solids in it and go after DG
every cartridge has its place
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