shot placement

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brybenn

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While having a conversation about shooting and hunting with a coworker we came to the conclusion we have differing opinions on the shoulder shot. I was hoping this site will shed some light on our thoughts.
To you is the shoulder shot (1)high on the point of the shoulder where the large flat shoulder bone meets up with the spine and top of ribs. Or is it (2) the first upper joint of the front leg?
The topic was bear hunting so the animal in question is a black bear. This is for hunting shot placement not defense
I apologize for not knowing the exact terms of the bones in question

Ps I've got $20 bet with him more ppl agree with me so let's find out
 
hart and lung no matter what you should study this lots of pic's on the net if you got to africahunting.com they have a good assortment of shot placement guides (yes even for non african game)
 
forget about a shoulder shot and aim for a lung, heart shot... a lot less meat damage and a quicker humane kill.
 
:confused:
Aiming for the first joint on the leg is a terribly bad idea. Why not gut shoot him to begin with?

Dead center of mass directly behind shoulder. A little too far forward gets the shoulder, a little too far back liver. It's the safest shot out there IMO and you potentailly ruin the least amount of meat. The only animal I could see aiming intentionally for the shoulder on is a mountain goat, in order to anchor them right there(ideally) to prevent them cartwheeling down the mountain.
 
You can't go wrong aiming for the boiler room (i.e. the vitals). Its position varies a little among species, but every hunter should take the time to educate him/herself as to its location on the animal they are hunting.
 
bearkilr said:
:confused:
Aiming for the first joint on the leg is a terribly bad idea. Why not gut shoot him to begin with?

Dead center of mass directly behind shoulder. A little too far forward gets the shoulder, a little too far back liver. It's the safest shot out there IMO and you potentailly ruin the least amount of meat. The only animal I could see aiming intentionally for the shoulder on is a mountain goat, in order to anchor them right there(ideally) to prevent them cartwheeling down the mountain.
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Agreed. First shot should be at the largest absolutely lethal target. Only exceptions for me is to anchor things, and I have done that too at times. A moose right on a trail is a lot easier than the same moose 175 yards downhill in a swamp. Deliberate spine shot under the hump, and then finish quickly.

But the first shot is almost always dead center of mass for me too. I think it also has the added advantage of the best "bleed out" of the meat that a rifle hunter can get. Good meat will eventually be the point for me.
 
rral22 said:
Agreed. First shot should be at the largest absolutely lethal target. Only exceptions for me is to anchor things, and I have done that too at times. A moose right on a trail is a lot easier than the same moose 175 yards downhill in a swamp. Deliberate spine shot under the hump, and then finish quickly.

But the first shot is almost always dead center of mass for me too. I think it also has the added advantage of the best "bleed out" of the meat that a rifle hunter can get. Good meat will eventually be the point for me.
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in the shoulder your damaging alot of meat and our also expanding you buller early behind the shoulder or anywhere else that will put you on a hart/lung shot with a black bear the hart and lungs meet up so its easy to get a double lung and hart shot all in one with right placement

http://www.africahunting.com/firearm-shot-placement/6473-black-bear-hunting-vitals.html
 
I prefer a lung shot my self but we were talking about the shoulder shot to anchor the bear. We both hunt in very thick bush. We both use 4570s (first year for me) as well so meat damage isn't as bad with the big slow bullets. My buddy seems to think to anchor an animal to shoot for the first upper joint to bring it down and the fragments will enter the heart and lungs. His thought are to far back its in the heart to far forward clean miss. I realize the heart is low in a bear but I like the high shoulder which stops the front legs and breaks the spine and takes out the upper portions of lungs. High its a straight spine low and behind are in the lungs and forward is thru the base of the neck. Remembering 75yards is far shot where we hunt. I've hit lots of whitetails in the shoulder with a muzzleloader. Meat lose is not to bad. Where as my 2506 ruins the whole rib cage on the entrance side
 
Always lungs...Bear don't go far with a lung hit..All the bear I have lunged have stayed within 100yds.....Aim dead centre!

Over bait, shots tend to be under 50yds(under 30 mostly). If you want to achor him, pop him in the pumpkin...
 
Game animals can't go far with two broken shoulders. I try and take at least on shoulder when I'm shooting at an animal depending on angle. Bullets matter and play in to my shot selection as well

The high shoulder shot are the tv highlight reel shots.
 
Closely, (worth repeating) closely look at the anatomy of a bear. You will quickly understand that the kill zone on a bear is rather small and forward. Now, take that anatomy and review it quartering away, towards and elevated up or down hill to really understand what you are trying to hit.

A normal well placed kill shot on a deer if made on a bear could easily be a gut shot. So my offer is that neither option is the best provided.

I would suggest you shoot tight to the crease of the bears leg where ever possible. When the leg is extended forward more kill zone will open up and expose more lung and heart, this is always a better shot to wait for.

Now, if you are considering a less than perfect shot and you choose either option 1 or 2 outlined above, then I would take the path closest to the boiler room and choose option 2. Why? Because it is where the boiler room is.

Why not option 1? Because the upper shoulder/spine is where potentially no mans land lies (a gap between lungs and spine). Sure you can break bone with a rifle bullet, but it could be a slow kill with little to no blood trail if you mess up. A center/low shot on a level broadside bear offers a blood trail and the boiler room. IMO it is always a better shot to take.

My two cents....
 
The question is whether or not you consider a black bear dangerous game.

For dangerous game, according to Jack O'Connor you always want to disable the animal with a shot that will break both front shoulders.

A lung or heart shot Grizzly is technically dead but he can still kill you before he dies. I remember hearing on the news about a young hunter being found dead with a dead grizzly a few feet away from him. This was in British Columbia about 8-10 years ago. He was using a 270.
 
griz and blacks are different one will eat you and one will run away you guess what one will eat you

i can bet you do the hart/double lung in one shot it will drop there or run a few yards with a good blood trail you would also have the fact that it cant breathe with a goos old hart shot you could use any ammo even fmj and it will still do its job.

hunting game that will charge you(griz) theres only one way to stop ay charging animal brain shut down or a spine shot

theres bigger game that even with a lung shot will and can stay alive for day elephant is a good example alot of the bow kill ele take a day or so to drop. theres one shot where you have to hit a target about the size of your wrist where you will get both lungs and the main artery coming off the hart
 
To answer the OPs question without delving into personal opinions, the "shoulder shot" is properly executed 1/3 up from the brisket line above the first leg joint. The other shot you descibe is a high shoulder/spine and is extremely risky, a little too high or low and you're in for a long day.
The properly done shoulder shot (as described) is for broadside shots only.
This is the most devastating shot, other than brain or spine, you can inflict upon an animal. The bullet travels through the shoulder, smashing it and sending secondary projectiles (bullet parts and bone chips) throughout the heart/lung region. The bullet either pierces the heart or devastates the plumbing above the heart, if a touch high, it then continues through to smash the out going shoulder, shredding both lungs as it does. Any animal so hit will instantly hit the ground and be totally incapacitated until death in about 15-30 seconds. If the bullet is of a lighter construction and does not exit, it will have imparted it's full energy on the animal and the bullet "blow up" inside the heart/lung cavity will cause such destruction that the outward result will be the same.
Meat loss and opinions aside, this is the correct meaning to a shoulder shot. This is my personal favorite and the shot I will endeavor to make whenever the opportunity presents itself, on all game.
 
Never shot the shoulder, never will either.

When i shoot a animal i eat the animal, unless it is a pest. A shoulder shot wrecks a lot of meat even with a large slow moving bullet, those bone chips wreck even more.

To me shooting the shoulder is akin to ordering a nice steak, Do you usually eat 3/4 of it and throw the rest away?

Aim for the vitals the animal will not go far.
 
OP's Question

All I'm reading here is opinion after opinion about wasted meat and better shot placement. Correct me if I'm wrong but the OP didn't ask for opinions on the best place to shoot an animal (black bear) He asked what is the proper placement for a shoulder shot, he didn't ask if you agreed with it or had other recommendations, he asked for the PROPER PLACEMENT OF A BULLET FOR A SHOULDER SHOT, PERIOD!!!!!!
Is anyone else going to step up and support my post or disagree with it, or is this just going to carry on being an opinion poll on where to shoot a black bear, which is NOT what the OP asked.
 
Heart/lung works on black bear and African game! Proper bullet selection and placement is essential. Every bear that I shot was heart lung and dropped in its tracks. 300 gr partition in a 375HH does the trick. I have shot blue widerbeast one shot heart lung. It did 20 or so feet and dropped. This year I shot a blesbuck atover 200M with a .338-06. I dropped in its track stone cold heart lung shot. The besbuck at that range, I took out its liver with a 375HH and it still walked some 50 feet. We waited some and then proceded to the sitting animal when it decided to ge up. I shot to the lower neck brought it down. Most African big game are very tough!
Henry
 
c-fbmi said:
To answer the OPs question without delving into personal opinions, the "shoulder shot" is properly executed 1/3 up from the brisket line above the first leg joint. The other shot you descibe is a high shoulder/spine and is extremely risky, a little too high or low and you're in for a long day.
The properly done shoulder shot (as described) is for broadside shots only.
This is the most devastating shot, other than brain or spine, you can inflict upon an animal. The bullet travels through the shoulder, smashing it and sending secondary projectiles (bullet parts and bone chips) throughout the heart/lung region. The bullet either pierces the heart or devastates the plumbing above the heart, if a touch high, it then continues through to smash the out going shoulder, shredding both lungs as it does. Any animal so hit will instantly hit the ground and be totally incapacitated until death in about 15-30 seconds. If the bullet is of a lighter construction and does not exit, it will have imparted it's full energy on the animal and the bullet "blow up" inside the heart/lung cavity will cause such destruction that the outward result will be the same.
Meat loss and opinions aside, this is the correct meaning to a shoulder shot. This is my personal favorite and the shot I will endeavor to make whenever the opportunity presents itself, on all game.
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You beat me to it, which is okay because you explained it better than I would have; even though I don't buy into the imparting of energy on the target argument. A shoulder shot does however require the choice of a strongly constructed bullet, particularly if one of light weight, fired from one of the ever popular high velocity small bore rifles is chosen.
 
I agree with C-fmbi and boomer. they know what they are writing about and as they mentioned, it would be nice if more people on here actually answered the original question instead of turning it into an opinion poll.

There is no sure definition of "shoulder shot" in any literature that I am aware of. So I believe that your bet has no definitive answer, sorry!

The diagram of bear anatomy by Joe was a helpful addition. Look at it closely. The top of the Humerus ( large leg bone) and the bottom of the scapula ( shoulder blade) join further forward than is ideal for a sure shot on a broadside bear. If a very strong bullet is placed there, it will disable the bear, but may or may not kill quickly because the vitals are not directly behind that spot.

If the bear is quartering toward the shooter, or if shooting for that spot on the opposite side of a quartering away animal, it is a very deadly shot. Hitting the near front shoulder joint of a quartering away animal would result in a wounding shot, but the bear would likely be disabled.

A shot higher through the top of the scapula & spine would instantly disable the bear, but would also be an easy shot to mess up if too high or forward.
 
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