SHOT SHOW 2014: Tangent Theta Professional Marksman Series Rifle Scope

Great looking scope. I can't comment on the price because imo these were not designed for, nor intended for my optics needs. I think the people or organizations who will utilize this level of scope won't be score keeping.. :p

I love the angled serrations on the turrets and adjustments. Not sure why, but I do.
 
People that are #####ing about the price should stick to there Tasco and Bushnells. You probably couldn't afford one anyway. These scope are designed for military and high end precision shooters. The price point is in the same range as other scope high scopes. The bonus is that they are made in Canada and don't require export paper work. Even if it has to go in for repair you don't have to fill out and the ITAR exemption paper work.
 
People keep posting that these are in the same ballpark pricewise as the S&B. Better take a look again. The S&B is $3700 for the 5-25, the comparable model TT is $4300. That is a $600 dollar difference. That is 16%. The S&B is a proven platform that is in service with military forces and police services around the world. You can get into the NF Beast for $3,400, the ATACR for $2,600, the Gen II Razor 3.5-27 for roughly $2,500. The only other scopes I can think of that make the TT look like it isn't ridiculously priced are the Leupold Mark 8 5-25 listed at $4,200US without the Horus and the Hensoldts and when you go through the list of competitors who use that equipment in the big tactical matches you don't find any listed. The trade off in value per dollar just isn't there. And I'm sure someone will give the age old tacticool argument about someone who isn't playing games or scoring points but using it in real world situations, but I would bet there is a *&#@^ pile more Nightforce, S&B, and Mark 4s in service than the $4,500 dollar glass.

My point is, it is too bad that the CDN manufacturers always seem to take this elitist stance on there product and force us to continue to purchase the products that produce a real dollar value product. I will continue to put NF on my rifles, or maybe the new Razor if I can convince myself to lug around a 3lb scope!!
 
I was in the TT shop a while ago, and handled some of their items. Out of respect for Andy, since I've known him for the better part of 2 decades, I said nothing about it.

I have handled the tool-less turrets, and seen the "guts" of them. Fascinating. From a hobby machinist's perspective, I can only dream of the precision that has gone into them.

I can speak for the fact that there has been some SERIOUS engineering going into these optics, and at some point, I would love to be able to put one of these scopes on top of the rifle that Andy helped me get built. Nope, not an AT-1C24, but damn close....and damned accurate.

Is it out of line to ask Ferrari prices for a BMW? Yup.

Is it out of line to ask Ferrari prices for a Ferrari product? Nope. Not at all, and this is what you're getting.

Note the target market..."Rifle Scopes for Professional Marksmen"

How many of us are actually PROFESSIONAL MARKSMEN?

Yes, it's a scope aimed at people who use their rifles daily in the course of the duties. Obviously aimed at Mil/Police.

If I had the $$ to put into it, I'd have one on my rifle. Even though I'm not someone who uses it daily in the course of my duties.

NS
 
Schecter 81 said:
People keep posting that these are in the same ballpark pricewise as the S&B. Better take a look again. The S&B is $3700 for the 5-25, the comparable model TT is $4300. That is a $600 dollar difference.
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People also keep posting(here and on other sites) S&B Retail prices and comparing them to an MSRP of $4,250, when we don't yet know what the actual retail price will be, so that's not really a fair comparison at this time.
"comparable" also ends at the magnification range, all these high end manufacturers offer different features and options that make them quite different and unique, and its up to the prospective buyers to figure out what they like best for their use.
 
Like it has been stated, there prices are completely out to lunch. It's disappointing that they choose to gouge instead of ease into the market, RIP Tangent.
 
Or could be their target market are not the average Joe like us. I'm sure they did their study and research on the market they are aiming for and priced their products for that market.

It will be the professional target shooters and military contracts that they are looking into.

DangerD said:
Like it has been stated, there prices are completely out to lunch. It's disappointing that they choose to gouge instead of ease into the market, RIP Tangent.
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Stevebot-7 said:
Yeah, Premier Reticles was a bit of the HK of the optics world. A few years back they caught a guy over on Sniper's Hide or somesuch giving discounts to people. When they heard about it they took away his dealership because selling the scopes for cheap "tarnished their reputation" or something.

That said, cost and snobbery was the only complaints I had heard about them, supposidly they made some of the finest scopes around, built as solid as anyone could ask.

I don't think they'll survive on the civilian market, in Nova Scotia no less, with those prices. Who knows though, maybe they'll get a military contract. With their cheapest MSRP of 3,697 even assuming they retail for $3,499 they are alienating tens of thousands, if not millions even in Canada.
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stevebot-7 and overpriced scope made in a province that has 50 target ranges z
and populated with un rich shooters the price piont is foolish for a runaway company
 
And as I predicted, there would be a couple guys who would try to justify what TT pricing point is by saying the are marketing to the "professional marksmen". Who do you think Nightforce and S&B are building scopes for? Do you think professional marksmen are not using those pieces of glass because they are subpar? I am not trying to criticize the fan boys of TT or Premier because it is well known that they build a great product. I have looked at getting the Premier Heritage, but the TT has gone up from their. I just don't think that marketing solely for the military and police is the best business model when the civilian market is huge. The only successful military contract that Premier ever got that I am aware of the CDN and that is probably only because they were CDN to justify the gross over spending. The CDN military stuck with two CDN manufacturers for sniper platform. To have to go up against all of the competition with similar feature, that right, I said similar features, (look at the NF Beast, Gen II Razor, and the S&B line) and it will pretty difficult to justify that price unless the military is getting a huge price break that us poor joes don't get to see because we don't matter.
 
Schecter 81 said:
And as I predicted, there would be a couple guys who would try to justify what TT pricing point is by saying the are marketing to the "professional marksmen". Who do you think Nightforce and S&B are building scopes for? Do you think professional marksmen are not using those pieces of glass because they are subpar? I am not trying to criticize the fan boys of TT or Premier because it is well known that they build a great product. I have looked at getting the Premier Heritage, but the TT has gone up from their. I just don't think that marketing solely for the military and police is the best business model when the civilian market is huge. The only successful military contract that Premier ever got that I am aware of the CDN and that is probably only because they were CDN to justify the gross over spending. The CDN military stuck with two CDN manufacturers for sniper platform. To have to go up against all of the competition with similar feature, that right, I said similar features, (look at the NF Beast, Gen II Razor, and the S&B line) and it will pretty difficult to justify that price unless the military is getting a huge price break that us poor joes don't get to see because we don't matter.
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Premier was awarded the Marine scout sniper contract. I thought the Canadian Military uses S&B scopes, nor was Premier a Canadian company.

I doubt you'll see Vortex being awarded any military contract.. their stuff just doesn't seem to be as durable as other offerings, maybe that changes with the Gen2 Razor.

How much has the price increased over the years for a S&B PMII? and the newly designed scopes from S&B cost considerably more than the TT.. I guess they're trying something silly like recouping their R & D costs.

In the end, assuming the glass of the TT is on par with the S&B, you have to ask yourself if the extra $ is worth it for no tunneling at lower power, a life-time warranty, a made in Canada product and (apparently) the swankiest turrets on the planet.

I suspect TT won't have any problem moving product, but time will tell.
 
I
'm still yet to see what a $4000 scope can do that my $1400 one can't. Just sayin
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In the middle of the perfect lighting condition day, you are correct - the high end scopes doesn't do much more that the mid range, $1500 scopes. But in bad lighting situations, the high end scopes shine vs the mid range scopes. The high end scopes continue to provide sight pictures that allow accurate fires on properly identified targets, which you can't confidently do with the mid range scopes.

An example of this: at the Alleghany Sniper Challenge there is a stage called "Heart of Darkness"... its a >1000yd target sitting in a very shady, deep hollow in the ground. I was up there in poor weather conditions: foggy, rainy, generally low lighting. The guys running Benders and Premiers could see the target and, importantly and challenging, splash. Most of these guys made 2nd round hits - see their splash on the first round, make the correction and sent it. Most guys running the mid range scopes did not have similar success.

That is what the additional $'s are buying.
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Here's a good quote from the HIDE, that puts it into perspective.They have a good thread on TT from the distributor Primal Rights. TT is chasing the S&B market.
 
Here are the offical MAP prices (in US dollars) for the Tangent Theta line:

Model TT315M Professional Marksman 3-15x50mm, illuminated with Gen 2 XR reticle (or MoA calibrated reticle), in mil/mil or 1/4 MoA, 30mm tube, 40MoA of adjustment:
$2,998

Model TT315P Professional Marksman 3-15x50mm, illuminated with Gen 2 XR reticle (or MoA calibrated reticle), in mil/mil or 1/4 MoA, 34mm tube, 96MoA of adjustment, tool-less re-zero:
$3,697

Model TT525P Professional Marksman 5-25x56mm, illuminated with Gen 2 XR reticle (or MoA calibrated reticle), in mil/mil or 1/4 MoA, 34mm tube, 96MoA of adjustment, tool-less re-zero:
$4,250

There remains a limited quantity of the Premier Heritage 5-25x56mm, illuminated with the MoA calibrated reticle, with 1/4 MoA adjustment, 34mm tube:
$3,521

Delivery on the new TT scopes is scheduled for Q2 2014.
 
Schecter 81 said:
And as I predicted, there would be a couple guys who would try to justify what TT pricing point is by saying the are marketing to the "professional marksmen". Who do you think Nightforce and S&B are building scopes for? Do you think professional marksmen are not using those pieces of glass because they are subpar? I am not trying to criticize the fan boys of TT or Premier because it is well known that they build a great product. I have looked at getting the Premier Heritage, but the TT has gone up from their. I just don't think that marketing solely for the military and police is the best business model when the civilian market is huge. The only successful military contract that Premier ever got that I am aware of the CDN and that is probably only because they were CDN to justify the gross over spending. The CDN military stuck with two CDN manufacturers for sniper platform. To have to go up against all of the competition with similar feature, that right, I said similar features, (look at the NF Beast, Gen II Razor, and the S&B line) and it will pretty difficult to justify that price unless the military is getting a huge price break that us poor joes don't get to see because we don't matter.
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Then what is the M8541A? They won the USMC Scout Sniper Scope contract in 2010. S&B was the supplier before that. As for CDN DND contracts they will probably win it once they CF finds a suitable replacement for the C3A1. Wouldn't you want to deal with a Canadian company. Look what happened over the Unertl fisco of trying to procure scope from a foreign contractor.
 
Rebel Rouser said:
Then what is the M8541A? They won the USMC Scout Sniper Scope contract in 2010. S&B was the supplier before that. As for CDN DND contracts they will probably win it once they CF finds a suitable replacement for the C3A1. Wouldn't you want to deal with a Canadian company. Look what happened over the Unertl fisco of trying to procure scope from a foreign contractor.
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I stand corrected on the USMC contract. To my understanding, the PGW rifles being purchased by the CDN military are being supplied with the Premier glass. I was under the impression Premier was a Canadian company, can anyone else comment?

My main point is not that the TT product is not a good product, I assume they will be as the Premier guys have always put out a good scope, but it sure seems hard to justify the diminishing returns when you start to break the $3,500 mark when there are so many other strong competitors out there that have all be and are still in use with "professional marksmen".

Im sure there will be a few private owners who step up and can afford the money to purchase one of these pieces, but what I was saying is it is a shame that a Canadian company can't receive the support of the Canadian market because their corporate values dictate that the military contracts are their only target. There is a large consumer shooting community both in Canada and the US that would snap up a product that offers great glass and reticle offerings that TT/Premier does. The GenXR is a great reticle design and the glass is well respected. Although, 96moa of adjustment for a 34mm tube is a little disappointing, same can be said for the S&B though.
 
i think something that many people loose sight of is that a lot of these companies who are just setting up shop can't compete in the $1000-$1500 range because they simply can't put out enough product to keep up with the demand that they would need while keeping the quality and standards that are expected of a local, canadian manufactured product. i don't know how many products that i have seen where its "well the make an amazing product but we just can't get them" or "the product is great but the customer service is terrible" how long do you think a company would last if they went after the bushnell or tasco markets by trying to compete with chinese/offshore crap....they could never pump out enough scopes to keep up let alone deal everything else thats expected from suppliers these days. trying to put their scope in the hands of every tom #### and harry would be the death of their company. give it time, if they stay afloat (and i hope they make it) I'm sure they will be able to start looking at more affordable optics for the average joe

I would love to be able to spend the $$$ on a PGW rifle and top it with a TT scope but like others have said....and the company also advertises these are built for the professional marksmen who are out there with lives on the line and if their gear fails...people die. i don't think they are grossly overprice. i can't afford/justify one but then i make my living as a welder and i go and blow my $$$ on the "grossly overpriced" miller and lincoln machines, i don't expect to be able to do my job with a $300 buzz box i bought at princess auto...
 
More pics added.

I have 3 Premier Heritage scopes. These are NOT just upgraded Premiers. The design on them started a year before they acquired Premier. What you see today is a combination of what they liked from their own design and the stuff that was good in the Premiers. They are new and these scopes are VERY impressive!
 
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