SHOT SHOW UPDATE#1: BOBERG ARMS coming to Canada!!!

always makes me laugh when canadians worry about the reliablity of a handgun?? if it jams clear it! it's not like it's going to have to save your life going from the car to the range and back if it looks good and shoots straight whats the big deal? RELIABILITY pft!! untill you can carry them stop addressing reliability issues your a wiener!
 
FSI84 said:
always makes me laugh when canadians worry about the reliablity of a handgun?? if it jams clear it! it's not like it's going to have to save your life going from the car to the range and back if it looks good and shoots straight whats the big deal? RELIABILITY pft!! untill you can carry them stop addressing reliability issues your a wiener!
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'Fraid I have to agree with the newbie on this one :). And while early concerns about pulling a bullet apart while feeding appear to have been addressed, even if it happens, it's nothing that a reasonably competent and patient person can't resolve on a Saturday night while watching the hockey game :). Failing that, gun smith.

Should it happen? Should cars with completely innovative design features have zero defects? In a world where everything is absolutely perfect, no. But that's not our world now, is it? :)
 
FSI84 said:
always makes me laugh when canadians worry about the reliablity of a handgun?? if it jams clear it! it's not like it's going to have to save your life going from the car to the range and back if it looks good and shoots straight whats the big deal? RELIABILITY pft!! untill you can carry them stop addressing reliability issues your a wiener!
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It's a bit funny to end with (your) a wiener, but reliability is a key factor. Did you car start this morning? Plus the 'you don't carry them' is a bit of a slave mentality.
 
It's our choice to accept the crumbs tossed to us, but giving the guy a hard time for mentioning reliability is a bit much. Reliability is one of main factors related to firearms. It might be the most important. However, I suppose you don't need reliability when you have range swagger.
 
I would agree that reliability is a big deal in a firearm. from mildly annoying to deadly would be the opposite of reliable.

I would have one of these pistols just because it is so different and I appreciate the engineering, but it would have to work all the time.
 
JR Hartman said:
I would have one of these pistols just because it is so different and I appreciate the engineering, but it would have to work all the time.
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Here is my opinion on a Boberg:

If you look at most gas-port driven (or what I will call it) firearms like Garands, M14/M305, AR's and so on you see a limitation of useable ammo compared to a bolt action. This is generally due to the fact a bolt or other "fixed action" can shoot and feed just about anything (if you ignore the .223 and rates of twist). The gas-port driven firearms require ammunition that can build proper pressures without exceeding parts-damaging pressures to operate at proper levels. In other words, for those with an M305, would you run hundreds of rounds of Barnes 250gr Origional bullet at the max of 2200fps through it? Probably not: it would pound the gas system to death. Like-wise, light "squib" loads would never operate the system.

The AR then introduces requirements to change ammunition based on gas port lengths and buffer confirgurations: or change port lengths and buffers based on the ammunition you want to shoot. You could also look at an AR15 in 300AAC Blackout where to shoot sub-sonic a pistol length gas port is required (as I have read, but I know my carbine 300AAC stove pipes sub-sonic regardless of the nice groups). Then, if you add the .223/5.56 AR system with various rates of twist, then those ammunition choices get restricted again based on not just operation but accuracy. A 1in7 twist on a pistol length system might operate awesome with very heavy bullets and tight crimps, where a full 20" rifle with a 1in14 twist will be unlikely to operate optimally and have the best groups on the same ammunition.

You could also look at any handguns like a Sig, Glock, CZ (and on, and on, and on) and find that each firearm works optimally and has the best groups with a certain ammunition. Many threads here talk about one (insert brand here) working better on one ammo, and yet another person has the exact (insert brand here) and it works better on something else. Grouping of the fired projectiles down range is one factor, while the smooth and 100% reliable operation of the system is another: the balance of the two must be decided by the user. Maybe super flawless 100% operation in the US where carry is allowed is more important, maybe the one ammo with awesome groups is more important, or maybe a reasonable medium can be found: 100% operation with the 2nd or 3rd best ammo groups.

In other words, if someone is using a non "fixed action" (bolt, single, break, etc.) then they are already knowledgeable that their firearm doesn't operate ammo "K" very well and gets barn sized groups with ammo "S".

I look at a Boberg as buying an AR-15 type rifle with a set and unchangeable buffer, barrel length and gas port length: the type of ammunition it will feed 100% reliably and with good accuracy becomes narrowed. By looking at the Boberg site that records the ammunition tried by actual owners the limitations are not horrible: medium to heavy loads (or +P) with a moderate to heavy crimp. If someone wants to shoot light loads then it won't work properly, and if someone wants to shoot rounds with little or no crimp then they will get seperations in the magazine. There is another limitation presented too: no heavy military-type primers in the 6lb trigger (that is easily solved by getting the standard 7.5lb trigger). The actual problems with the Boberg design seems to have been worked out in the refinement and first user reports part of the development of the firearm. That only leaves the ammunition restrictions based on the intended and well-engineered design, something that cannot be changed: for the firearm to work as desgined that requires good ammo of good crimp and decent C.U.P.

I have already worked out the best ammo for an Norc M305 and several AR's of various configurations, so I really don't see any more effort for a Boberg. For those that are not accustomed to such things, in my opinion, a Boberg might (just might) seem like a strange piece of un-reliable hardware... :yingyang:
 
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I agree, its a semi auto, and as such its going to like one(or a few) kinds of ammo. However, with that kind(s), it should always work. they should optimise it to work with regular ammo too, stuff that's readily availiable, not only +p expensive home defence ammo. Or have a simple change out part availiable for use with cheap AE115grn etc ammo. No one wants to pay a dollar a round for 9x19 just to make the pistol shoot.
 
JR Hartman said:
No one wants to pay a dollar a round for 9x19 just to make the pistol shoot.
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I'm seriously looking at this pistol and planning on reloading for it. Reloaders can experiment with various load and bullet combinations and come up with a load that the gun likes.
That's what I intend to do.
 
JR Hartman said:
they should optimise it to work with regular ammo too, stuff that's readily availiable, not only +p expensive home defence ammo.
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The list is here: http://community.bobergarms.com/forum/topics/boberg-compatible-ammunition

The list of known "Incompatible" is short: (I bolded the ones that I think might be a problem for some Canadians based on anmo types at CGN sponsors)

Aguila 124gr FMJ (reported to jam 5-10% of the time)
Bitterroot Valley Ammunition (BVAC reloads) 115gr (2 separations in 150 rounds)
Blazer Brass (5 separations in 6 magazines)
Black Hills +P 115gr (can be over-crimped - little case mouth for magazine to register on)
Blazer Aluminum Case (2 separations in 9 shots)

Federal Champion (separations in batches prior to summer of 2010 as well as 1/12)
Independence 115gr FMJ (2 separations in 2 magazines)
Independence 124gr FMJ (1 separation in a case of 50)
MFS Russian Zinc Plated Steel Case 115gr (extra rounds ejected)
Sellier and Bellot 115gr and 124gr (Hard Primers but works well with 7.5lb trigger spring or stronger)

Speer Gold Dot 124gr +P (1 separation in 85 rounds)
Speer Lawman 115gr FMJ (multiple reports of separations)
Tula Steelcase 115gr (Hard Primers)
Winchester Silver Tips 115gr (1 separation malfunction in a case of 50)
 
You are a fount of knowledge, Aniest! :). Thanks for both your previous two posts - I read them thoroughly and gratefully! And despite the nay-sayers, you know where I'm going to be tomorrow at noon PDT!!! :D
 
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