Shotgun barrel length - how much does it matter?

Brobee

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Hey CGN!!

I am working on concepts for my Brobee223 2025 youtube hunting video...am thinking about "returning to my roots" and doing a proper episode on 12 gauge rifled slugs, stuff like:

  • distance/velocity curves of a bunch of commonly available rifled slugs
  • slug expansion characteristics at a variety of different impact velocities
  • effect of barrel length on muzzle velocity
  • maybe a deer or bear hunt to round it all out
I have a good selection of 870 barrels from 14" through 28", but missing from my collection is a 12". Reaching out to Dlask to pursue one of their factory offerings seems like I'm on the wrong side of a black hole event horizon (phone and email unanswered), am wondering if they are still in business?

Edited to add - got ahold of the Dlask crew, bought a 12.5in barrel, and received it shipped to my door 2 days later! Super excited, and super happy with the product! Thank you Dlask.

And as an alternative, if there is anyone out here that has a factory Dlask 12" they aren't really using, please reach out as I would love to buy it from you!

Hope you're all having a great start to 2025!

Best,

Brobee
 
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Dlask are still in business. At least up until a few weeks ago they were. If they have 12" barrels in stock, they will be listed on their website.

I'd really like to see some real world comparisons of barrel length effectiveness. They guys all say the length of the barrel has a negligible effect, my trap shooting tells me otherwise, but the guys have no problems showing ballistics stats.
 
Found one, thank you CGN!

Re barrel length effectiveness - this project would suss that out in some detail. My plan is to start by collecting empirical velocity data at the target, shot from a variety of increasing distances (I may or may not have shot my chronograph in the past, have learned some things about how to protect it!). Then we'd know how shotgun slugs slow down as a function of air resistance over distance.

I'm then gonna collect a bunch of muzzle velocity data from different barrel lengths. Lastly, marry the whole nine yards to empirical slug expansion observations associated with different impact velocities. Should be fun, I can't wait for spring to come!
 
What chronograph are you using. The Doppler types like the garmin or Labradar could get you that velocity data for various ranges with a lot less ammo and effort.
 
Found one, thank you CGN!

Re barrel length effectiveness - this project would suss that out in some detail. My plan is to start by collecting empirical velocity data at the target, shot from a variety of increasing distances (I may or may not have shot my chronograph in the past, have learned some things about how to protect it!). Then we'd know how shotgun slugs slow down as a function of air resistance over distance.

I'm then gonna collect a bunch of muzzle velocity data from different barrel lengths. Lastly, marry the whole nine yards to empirical slug expansion observations associated with different impact velocities. Should be fun, I can't wait for spring to come!
Gel, gel, ballistics gel!!
 
Brobee, really looking forward to that video. Love your videos ... and I am coming back to your videos again and again for information ....

Curious, what slugs are you thinking of testing? As you know ... different slug designs will lead to very different results with respect to accuracy, expansion and penetration.

And are you going to include accuracy tests?
Would love to see that ....

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/threads/unofficial-12ga-slug-penetration-comparison.1635960/
 
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Gel, gel, ballistics gel!!

I was a gun-obsessed teenager in 1986 when the Miami shootout happened, and watched with fascination as the FBI Ballistics Gel Test Protocol was rolled out in 1988.

In the years that followed I dove headfirst to consume anything I could find written by Dr. Martin Fackler and others of his ilk at the International Wound Ballistics Association and the Journal of Trauma, and as the civilian internet was born in the 90’s the availability of information on the subject, both good and bad, exploded.

Then in the early 2000’s, I finally bought my first gun (a remington 870 marine magnum), and it coincided with Duncan MacPherson publishing his unrivaled work Bullet Penetration: Modeling the Dynamics and the Incapacitation Resulting from Wound Trauma, which I bought and read over and over as I constructed MSExcel models to enable me to do correction calculations based on .177 bb calibration data and predictive penetration based on bullet geometry, material, and velocity charracteristics.

I called up bloom gelatin company and learned all about different bloom grades of gelatin, then on multiple occasions ordered up large quantities I could use to make 9”x9”x18” 10% ordnance gelatin as specified by the FBI protocol. I even went so far as to hack an air conditioning unit to serve duty as an insulated utility trailer refrigeration system I could use to keep the gelatin at its required 5°C to ensure proper calibration and proper terminal media viscosity required to certify penetration data as valid under the protocol, allowing me to play unfettered in the summer months feeding my terminal ballistics junky-like habit.

This was right around the time I started deer and bear hunting, primarily using my 12 gauge shotgun with either buck shot or rifled slugs. In the years that have passed between then and now I’ve killed a mountain of critters with some form of 12 gauge; most dying very quickly but the odd one dying horribly, sometimes because of unusual and counter-intuitive properties + mis-matched application of certain rifled slugs.

In parallel I did a zillion different gelatin tests on a zillion different shotgun rounds and made the odd YouTube video in the early days of my channel to share results on stuff I thought others might find interesting. In more than a decade of being available on YouTube, the most popular of these videos has about 85,000 views, and they average about 50,000…not great performance.

Fast-forward to today, where the YouTube firearm infotainment market is saturated with people consuming ballistic gel dummies and non-gelatin based synthetic alternatives (with no calibration standard or data provided, hence no correction possible to a known standard), often re-using their gel over and over (which I know from experience effects its calibration characteristics), yet no one seems to care and folks somehow think the data derived stands up to the standard of Dr. Fackler.

In the meantime since starting around 2001, I’ve now successfully hunted more than 75 deer and bear using buckshot or slugs - amassing a pretty good body of real-life experience to contrast against all the $$ I insanely lit on fire (or should I say mixed, poured, refrigerated, shot, and photographed), and I can safely say that for me, at this stage of my life, swamp water in Rubbermaid totes is a sufficient terminal media analog for what I’m now interested in.

My interest is less and less properly calibrated penetration data, and more and more plastic deformation + fragmentation characteristics relative to impact velocity. Re penetration data, I am satisfied to simply know which tote I pulled what type of recovered bullet fragment from.

Suspect this is the approach I will take this coming spring/fall, but am pretty pumped as I’ve not yet seen anyone explore the concept of impact velocity in rifled slugs. To use properly calibrated ballistics gel to do this would both be cost prohibitive in today’s world, as well as add an insane layer of complication to what I’m hoping to do. Hope this does not disappoint too badly, but suspect the work will be more interesting than anything I’ve uploaded in the shotgun world thus far!

Cheers,

Brobee
 
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Curious, what slugs are you thinking of testing? As you know ... different slug designs will lead to very different results with respect to accuracy, expansion and penetration.

And are you going to include accuracy tests?
Would love to see that ....https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/threads/unofficial-12ga-slug-penetration-comparison.1635960/
Have been noodling over which slugs to test quite a bit - for sure the Joe-standard foster slug, probably from two of the big manufacturers like Federal powershok/truball and Winchester SuperX. As impact velocity is going to be one of my major themes, different factory loadings around different muzzle velocities is also interesting to me, ie: federal powershok 1610 fps vs federal tactical hydra-shok tactical 1300fps, the latter having more aggressive hollow point geometry (and I’m curious about similar/different cross sectional area of the slug base too).

Think I am also going to try the Remington Reduced Recoil 1200fps (I have killed more deer and bears with this load than all others combined), and just because I want to know how Hornady thinks about their pricing strategy will try their American whitetail 1600fps to see if I can discover why it is 3x more expensive than everything else..

I would also like to showcase the legendary Brenneke; I have some Rio-loaded 1450fps, as well as some Rottweil Brenneke (I think 1300fps, need to chrono); regrettably my supply of Brenneke is low and I was too slow to top up before all the vendors seemingly ran out all at the same time.

As an aside re Brenneke - if anyone in the Calgary area has some rio Brenneke they would consider trading lopsided for some Remington low recoil 00 buckshot, please reach out!

Might also do a smaller segment with Herter’s, enough to investigate if they are the same/different to Winchester super-x, only because they are available and really affordable.

Thought about including score and challenger slugs, but think I will decide against as I don’t feel like they’re anywhere near as popular in the US as fed/win/rem, + 90% of my audience is American. As well my protocol will be time and effort intensive so need to make some culling decisions for time management, but if folks think this is a huge mistake please chime in and discuss. May also re-evaluate as spring/summer progresses and I see how available time unfolds.

Re accuracy - was not going to explore this other than to note how different different chokes +’barrel + gun combinations can be.

Appreciate the feedback!

Brobee
 
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Why slugs? Short #### I run 00 Buck, it's a shotgun not a rifle lol.
12" shotgun with a front bead...not really ideal for aiming at #### vs 28"...not getting the practical application of this experiment I guess
 
Why slugs? Short #### I run 00 Buck, it's a shotgun not a rifle lol.
12" shotgun with a front bead...not really ideal for aiming at #### vs 28"...not getting the practical application of this experiment I guess
I'm getting ready for the entertaining posts from the people taking 300lb Bucks on the run at 400 yards with a 12" smooth bore, bead site and a $6 box of Rifled slugs from Canadian Tire
 
Woke up this morning and realized I forgot to mention Dr Gary Roberts in my post above…sacrilegious!!! He had a big influence too, and is probably responsible for my fascination with buckshot. Interesting though that what I think would be his big shotgun contribution to “the literature” is on the path to extinction - I have it on reasonable authority that federal assesses the #1 flitecontrol load he raved so much about as not viable in the marketplace.

Hitzy - I’ve done a lot of buckshot projects in the past - if I were to do another it would be using #1 buck per DocGKR. Am thinking primarily about 12” barrel utility in the portability department, I know some folks use it in a wilderness bear defense type application, and am mostly interested in the loss-of-velocity question.

…FCD…ha! There won’t be any 400 meter action, more like 100m as extreme outside with special focus on what happens at 10m or less as this is where I’ve been most surprised in the past re-slug performance.
 
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Thought about including score and challenger slugs, but think I will decide against as I don’t feel like they’re anywhere near as popular in the US as fed/win/rem, + 90% of my audience is American. As well my protocol will be time and effort intensive so need to make some culling decisions for time management, but if folks think this is a huge mistake please chime in and discuss. May also re-evaluate as spring/summer progresses and I see how available time unfolds.
Hey man, thanks for all your videos. I really appreciate all your work and am hoping that you can at least include the "Challenger Magnum" slugs in your research. I think that would make sense since it's the most commonly available rifled slug in Canada that has sufficient penetration for bear defense. JMO, and all the best.
 
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Sounds really interesting, looking forward to seeing the results!
I've not seen your previous videos - what do I search for on youtube?


Nvr mnd - found ya!
 
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