Shotgun fit .... It needs to fit?

0faustus0

0faustus0

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So, I am reading on here again and again .... that a shotgun needs to fit the shooter .... or that it needs to feel right when shouldering.

But I am wondering ..... what does that really mean?

I bought a side by side recently that felt really good ..... and the sight picture was good.
But when I headed out to the range and patterned it ..... it shot way too low with a Full and Modified choke at 30 meters. I would have completely missed any goose or duck at that distance. And when I tried to adjust the sight picture ..... well then the gun did not feel right any more.

So, what actually is a good fit? Especially when you are in the store and you can't pattern test the gun before buying it ..... ?

----------------- Edit -----------------

Ok, I will reword my question .....


You are at a gun store and you found a beautiful shotgun that just feels right ..... It shoulders right ..... the sight picture feels right .... positive cheek weld ..... stock length feels good .... etc.

How can you know that it will shoot to point of aim and before buying it?

This is the question of this thread!
 
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0faustus0 said:
So, I am reading on here again and again .... that a shotgun needs to fit the shooter .... or that it needs to feel right when shouldering.

But I am wondering ..... what does that really mean?

I bought a side by side recently that felt really good ..... and the sight picture was good.
But when I headed out to the range and patterned it ..... it shot way too low with a Full and Modified choke at 30 meters. I would have completely missed any goose or duck at that distance. And when I tried to adjust the sight picture ..... well then the gun did not feel right any more.

So, what actually is a good fit? Especially when you are in the store and you can't pattern test the gun before buying it ..... ?
Click to expand...



https://www.theyorkshiregent.com/shooting/gun-fitting-guide-fit-shotgun/
 
To over simplify a very complicated topic... a shotguns point of impact should match up to where your eyes are looking when you have shouldered the gun into your comfortable shooting position, which typically includes bringing the gun to your cheek and looking down the barrels with both eyes open.

Beyond that, I'd recommend some time on YouTube watching a few videos to obtain a general understanding of the topic.
 
For a quick test, I shoulder a shotgun with my eyes closed, and when I open them, the rib should be centered left to right, and I am looking along the rib, not down at it, and not at the back of the rib, so I can't see the full front bead. This isn't perfect, but it at least guarantees that the bores are pointing, where you are looking.
 
to simplify it
i had an 870 Remington pump it was basically point and shoot pump and shoot. With a Browning I had extend the shotgun further from my shoulder in order to get a shot out - may not sound like much but i sold it after one season.
 
Hi! I have some info on this. I saw a video in France and, the first thing the buyer does after buying the shotgun is to see a gunsmith to fit the gun to the owner. They bend the buttstock and make it lean inside or outside, up and down as need be. They may also make the buttstock longer or shorter. In brief, if one to shoot in competition or hunt a lot of ducks that is the way to go!
Good luck!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPbr-W5EZb8 (video of what I said)
 
100 FT seems far away to pattern a shotgun . but maybe not. how low?
mabe aim point is not where it needs to be
 
You’ve discovered first-hand exactly what it means. Yes, the shot should go where you are looking. You should be able to raise the gun up and have your cheek firmly seated, and you can forget the barrel/sight picture/bead/sighting plane/etc. Just look where the target is and the shot follows.
 
Neil Winston on point of impact testing at 13 yards, worth reading -
ht tps://web.archive.org/web/20180307110221/http://claytargettesting.com/
Fix the https
 
Grouse Man said:
You’ve discovered first-hand exactly what it means. Yes, the shot should go where you are looking. You should be able to raise the gun up and have your cheek firmly seated, and you can forget the barrel/sight picture/bead/sighting plane/etc. Just look where the target is and the shot follows.
Click to expand...

This.

The best explanation I have heard is that you don't aim a shotgun, you POINT a shotgun. If you see a bird in the air, and you want to point at it with your finger you just point, you don't look down your arm to line it up. A shotgun should be an extension of your body in much the same way.
 
Love how everyone keeps repeating the same talking points about gun fit.

"you don't aim a shotgun"
"You look at your target and the shot just goes there"
etc etc.

You absolutely aim a shotgun, otherwise your shot isn't going to land anywhere near your target.
You don't aim a shotgun like you would a handgun or rifle where you are aligning rear/front sight and target.
Your eye is the rear sight while shooting a shotgun and the sight picture needed to hit what you are aiming (yes aiming) at is developed over time and with practice to understand the relationship between the barrel/front sight and the target.

This assumes that the person shooting has perfected their mount and is doing it the same every single time.
Without a consistent gun mount, the relationship between your eye and the barrel/front sight will be different every time and your point of impact will be off. Enough to miss a target? depends on how different the mount is vs what your "perfect" mount is.

Gun fit is for comfort and ease of shooting, helping get that consistent mount.
This is of more importance if one's shooting style is such that they bury their face into the stock so recoil is transmitted into their shoulder and face.
not only does it help you put the gun in the same spot every time so your eye/barrel relationship is consistent, its not fun having the wrong pitch on your shotgun and having your cheek hammered all day while shooting clays.
But at the end of the day, anyone can shoot any gun if they know what they are doing and practice with that shotgun a bit.

for an example of how little gun fit really matters:

this kid wins national championships and his face doesn't come close to touching the stock.
How important is gun fit to someone like him?

What he does though, is mount the gun the same way every time, and fully understands the sight picture needed to hit what he is aiming at.
The relationship between eyes and barrel so he can aim properly for the shot he's making, i.e. put the barrel where its needed (lead the target)

With enough practice, the act of aiming a shotgun happens subconsciously, and focus turn to the target which is necessary to understand what its doing, so you can lead it properly and hit it.
I think the general misunderstanding of what experienced shooters are trying to say when they say they don't aim, and just look at the target, has caused this whole mix up of terminologies and the sayings that keep getting repeated on forums.
They give the end result, not the process to get there.
 
You can get a really good idea if a gun fits just by mounting it and checking where your eye is positioned in relation to the rib and bead but the true test is to fire the gun at flying targets. Some one that knows what to look for will quickly figure out if the gun fits properly. That’s why stock makers often use try guns to figure out what actually works instead of what should work.
 
I knew a fellow who could shoot 25 on skeet with the shotgun butt held on his hip... not even close to his face...
 
Ok, I will reword my question .....


You are at a gun store and you found a beautiful shotgun that just feels right ..... It shoulders right ..... the sight picture feels right .... positive cheek weld ..... stock length feels good .... etc.

How can you know that it will shoot to point of aim and before buying it?

THIS IS THE QUESTION OF THIS THREAD!!!
 
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Anecdotes about one extremely talented individual, shooting from the hip, teaches us nothing about how to help the average shooter improve their results, by better gun fit.
I don't believe that there is a way to confirm what point of impact vs point of aim will be, for an individual shooter in the store.
 
Until last year, I have had one shotgun in my whole life - a trusty Remington 870 20ga youth model. Loved it and particularly because it was a youth model for a smaller statured guy like me, it fit well and shot well.

Then on a lark last year, mostly maybe for the novelty feature, I bought a Mossberg 590 Shockwave SPX in 12ga. With that raptor/bird's head grip. No way to be able to shoulder that, and I did have a stock for that but sold it, going back to the bird's head grip. Why that thing has a bead on the front I will never know because if I were to sight it based on the bead, the gun would smack me in the face each time I shot it, based on how incredibly short it is. I know perhaps it was meant to shoot from the hip, but if so, why the bead?

I recently took it to my club and a fellow member/buddy and I shot slugs through it (I can only shoot slugs at my club). I don't think either of us hit paper with it at the shortest distance (25 yards). He has shot shotguns a lot longer than I have.

Now this may be an anomaly, but in the store the gun felt good - I knew I wasn't to hold it near my face so I tried to aim with the bead with the gun held further away. In this case, what was comfortable in theory was not in practice and in fact, it was a rather frustrating experience for both of us.
 
0faustus0 said:
Ok, I will reword my question .....


You are at a gun store and you found a beautiful shotgun that just feels right ..... It shoulders right ..... the sight picture feels right .... positive cheek weld ..... stock length feels good .... etc.

How can you know that it will shoot to point of aim and before buying it?

THIS IS THE QUESTION OF THIS THREAD!!!
Click to expand...

Shooting to point of aim is not an issue of gun fit. In a double barrel gun it is an issue of whether the gun has been properly regulated and in single barrel guns, it is an issue of whether the barrel is straight and true.

Most people don't know their double guns are not properly regulated until they specifically pattern their gun to determine both barrels are shooting to point of aim. On single barrel guns a bent barrel will show up when set against a known straight edge. Improperly bored (it happens) is a little harder to determine.
 
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