Shotgun Fitting Advice

Lotro

Lotro

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Sault Ste. Marie, ON
I got into clay shooting in 2018 and my local club had a 5-Stand course that I quite enjoyed shooting at while I was there. In order to participate I bought a used Beretta 686 Silver Pigeon I Sporting. I attended the shoots inconsistently and was never able to break more than 17/25. I thought it was mostly poor technique/more practice needed, but now that I'm a little more experienced, it appears as though the gun probably doesn't fit me. The beads line up when I mount it (which is good!) but my mount is suffering because the length of pull is 14 3/4 and I probably need something shorter. The new club I'm at doesn't have 5-stand, but it does have Trap and maybe skeet. I'm really struggling at Trap with this shotgun so I need to do something.

The question is: what should I do with this shotgun that doesn't fit?

Some people are suggesting I just cut it down. I'm leery of this because I know it will affect the resale value (essentially it becomes permanently mine) and I don't really LOVE the gun. I find it a little awkward to hold and swing (I'm 5'9" and average build). It's got 30" barrels and I'm wondering if I'll be better off with something entirely different instead of trying to customize something I don't like that much.

The other idea is to try and sell this and buy something different with an adjustable LOP ($$$) and if I do that, I might as well get adjustable comb because "buy once, cry once".

My last bad idea is to try and buy a used B-gun at a good (cheap!) price that's already been modified and then mess around with that as opposed to trying to mess around with this expensive 686, or perhaps try and find something else modest to get an idea about fit before blowing the budget on something else.

Would love to get some feedback or ideas from people who've been down this road already. Bonus points if someone can recommend a sharp gunsmith in southern Ontario who's good at fitting shotguns for new shooters.
 
Yup at 5'9" average built 14 3/4 is probably way to long for you for a starter take the recoil pad off and mount the gun that should take it down about an inch, if that feels good then you can shorten the stock the thickness of the recoil pad and shoot it for a few rounds, you may need to shorten it a bit more but go slow, if you take to much off you'll need spacers. Once you get the length correct you may need to adjust the comb height and offset so your mount lines up correctly every time.

Of course if you have someone in your area that is a gun fitter that should be your first stop, they know exactly what to look for and how to get the gun to fit you properly
 
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Waldo54 makes a good suggestion. A shortened stock doesn't necessarily affect the resale value if it's done well. There are lots of shooters your size and smaller. It sounds like you have the weight of the gun too far forward making it awkward to swing and as your forearm gets tired you lose consistency. When shooting trap it's better to have a more parallel stock so if your gun has a field stock that could be part of your problem too. A perfect excuse to buy another gun.
 
The sad fact is, that there are no qualified shotgun fitters in many areas, so you either get help from someone at the club, or you figure it out yourself. Length of pull is important, but I find drop at comb to be my biggest issue in finding a gun that fits right. To do a quick check, I close my eyes, shoulder the gun, and without moving, open my eyes. If I am looking along the rib, and it's centered left to right, the gun is at least pointing where I am looking. With Italian guns, I am typically looking down at the rib, because I need more drop at comb. I shoot a K20 for skeet, and an F3 for sporting clays, and in both cases, I had to remove material to get the comb low enough.
 
17/25 is pretty good for 5 stand. Trap is a different game due to the rising bird. Chances are you are shooting under the bird. This is not an LOP issue specifically, moreso a comb issue. Its relatively common the see shooters build up a comb with foam secured with tape, etc. to change POI. If you go this route, pick up a box of Winchester Tracker shells to confirm your POI.
BTW - Most Beretta guns come with 2 recoil pads, one thick and one thin. You appear to have the thick one. You can easily pick up a thin one from Stoeger or possibly the EE.
 
If the 686 stock is unaltered, you can get Beretta MicroCore recoil pads from Stoeger Canada, the Beretta and Benelli importer in Ontario. They come in two sizes....field and competition. Your Silver Pigeon Sporting is undoubtably the competition sized pad. And they come in thicknesses from 1/2" to 1.1" in .2" increments. If your pad is one of the thicker ones, you might get lucky and be able to buy a pad .4" or .6" thinner and reduce the LOP for the price of a pad. And I have found the thinner Microcore pads still do a good job of reducing recoil and don't hang up your mount if you shoot gun down sporting or skeet. The factory pads are typically held on with #2 Phillips screw headed wood screws. Oil or grease the screw driver shank before taking the old pad off or installing the new pad to prevent damaging the screw driver holes.

In my experience with Beretta pads they have come in the two noted sizes dating back over 23 years based on my AL 391 Urika semi auto sporter and my 686 O/U 20 ga field gun. The same Competion pads fit my buddy's DT 10 O/U and my newish A400 Xcel Sporter too. And the field pad fits my newish A400 Xplor field stock as my old AL391 with a field stock and the 686 Silver Pigeon field.

https://www.stoegercanada.ca/product/microcore-competition-recoil-pad/

Good luck!
 
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Lotro said:
Thanks everyone for the replies, I appreciate the advice. Seems like a shorter LOP is in order, but I like the idea of a thinner pad to start.
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Definitely do a thinner pad before you go shortening the stock. And don't just go shoot it once, do it several times to see if the shorter stock actually is a help. If the shorter stock improves your scores then you could even go back to the thicker recoil pad to see if your score goes down again just as a test to see if the stock really needs to be cut down.

A lot depends on how you are mounting the gun also. If you are premounting the gun then a shorter pad may not do much but if you are starting from a low gun position ( not normal on trap I know) then the shorter stock may have big benefits. Generally speaking, I've found that a stock that is a bit short is easier to shoot than a stock that is a bit too long.
 
The advice about a gun fitter is sound. At the very least, you need someone who understands the process. Nothing happens in isolation. By way of example, Drop at Comb is a common metric, but Drop at Face (cheek) is more useful. If you shorten the stock, your cheek will be more forward and the reduced drop at face will likely raise your point of impact. (Not necessarily a bad thing for trap.)

There is MUCH more to it. The suggestion of temporarily removing the recoil pad is free way of approximating results of a shortened stock.
 
If your not in love with the gun, and funds allow it, look for a new to you gun.

A lot of guys go through several guns before finding what they like the best.
 
I see you are shooting in the Sault. Is there still a fellow at that club by the name of Chris Denny? I haven't seen him in 20+ years and he hasn't shown up in the records of attending any ATA shoots on their website in that many years either. Just wondering if he's still alive and kicking?
 
I've actually recently moved back to Southern Ontario (I guess I should update my profile). In my time at ARGC i don't recall running into Chris Denny. I suspect I'd've remembered since we share the same first name. Quite possible he wasn't a clay shooter, or wasn't an active member. I spent a fair amount of time at the club, but not as much as I should have.
 
There is a book you should try to get called Stockfitter's Bible by Rollin Oswald IIRC. It is comprehensive and well written. It will not make you a stockfitter, but you will have the knowledge to judge whether someone is actually a qualified stockfitter, or a just a well meaning self appointed expert. One of the most valued books in my collection.
 
RO’s book helped me understand the importance of pitch and addressed the issue I was having with (major) cheek slap.

Rob! said:
There is a book you should try to get called Stockfitter's Bible by Rollin Oswald IIRC. It is comprehensive and well written. It will not make you a stockfitter, but you will have the knowledge to judge whether someone is actually a qualified stockfitter, or a just a well meaning self appointed expert. One of the most valued books in my collection.
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