Shotgun Overall legth = Prohib question?

USP

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Guys Ive got a 14 inch 870P clone- currently has a 14 inch factory barrel and speedfeed stock. Was wondering if I dropped the stock and put a pistol grip on it, where exactly do they measure the lenght to determine if the OAL is 26 inches. Is it 26 plus? I realize that a pistol grip is pathetic and makes a fine weapon a girly gun, however I will be going up north and wish to keep the gun in my pack at all times (unless Yogi is chewing on my leg) I dont have my hunting licence (yet) so I thought if I was on Crown land and it was packed this technically is legal in Ontario right?

Anybody have any thoughts on this? I realize that the chance that Yogi will try and eat me is rare- however back in the 90s I camped in Algonquin and a couple of miles down the trail from me that same weekend a couple was killed by a bear.

BTW- I know guns are forbidden in parks- but if its in a case in a pack this is still legal isnt it? I have heard that the case must be 6 sides? Can a nylon type case be legal? Would the gun need a trigger lock in the pack?

Its either that or Im gonna try and beat the bears ass with my fold up latrine shovel.

Thoughts on this? Thanks :D

BTW anybody know which of the board dealers have a pistol grip in stock right now? :)
 
I used to think 14" was the min barrel length at one time until I saw some of the stuff advertised on the 'world wide web'( aka cgn )as far as overall length I thought I knew that as well until one sees 8.5 " shotties with pistol grips, I guess some people never really outgrew the 'Ricardo Tubbs' era:p
 
Out of sight ..........out of mind....I won't tell if you don't

:D

I carry my DA Outlaw when camping out in the bush in my pack sack all the time & it's totally inconspicuous.

The Northern Ontario bush is full of hungry bruins and anyone who camps out for several nights & prepares food in the bush is nuts to be without protection.

Given the choice between facing a Liberal judge or cycling through the bowels of a 300 pound predatory blackie I'll take the judge option every time.

Unless someone sees a gun there won't be a problem..........out of sight out of mind is the best policy.
 
pricedo said:
:D

I carry my DA Outlaw when camping out in the bush in my pack sack all the time & it's totally inconspicuous.

The Northern Ontario bush is full of hungry bruins and anyone who camps out for several nights & prepares food in the bush is nuts to be without protection.

Given the choice between facing a Liberal judge or cycling through the bowels of a 300 pound predatory blackie I'll take the judge option every time.

Unless someone sees a gun there won't be a problem..........out of sight out of mind is the best policy.
Click to expand...

I agree with the above 100%, but figure out some thing that will keep the gun out of sight and accessible. You got some thinking to do about that one. BTW keep in mind that an unloaded gun is useless and a bear can be on top of you faster than you can say "oh 5hitt"............................:popCorn:

The bears residing in parks have been briefed not to attack humans or else they get evicted. That's why it is illegal to defend yourself in the parks. :bangHead:
 
"...makes a fine weapon a girly gun..." Makes it useless.
"...legal in Ontario right?..." As far as the MNR is concerned, Other than working trappers or prospectors, the only reason to have a firearm, of any kind, in the bush is for hunting. Doesn't matter if it's Crown Land or not.
"...in a case in a pack..." In a case and locked in your vehicle. No firearms, at all, in most Ontario Provincial Parks.
Read this. http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/Bearwise/index.html
 
There is no minimum in law. The only question is, "Is it a handgun?".

Also if you need a grip, I have tons in stock, $10 each, shipped.
 
sunray said:
"...makes a fine weapon a girly gun..." Makes it useless.
"...legal in Ontario right?..." As far as the MNR is concerned, Other than working trappers or prospectors, the only reason to have a firearm, of any kind, in the bush is for hunting. Doesn't matter if it's Crown Land or not.
"...in a case in a pack..." In a case and locked in your vehicle. No firearms, at all, in most Ontario Provincial Parks.
Read this. http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/Bearwise/index.html
Click to expand...



If its in a pack and not visible, wouldnt the CO lack the authority to search your pack if you were just hiking (on crown land)and there were no gun shots, no visible gun, no signs of hunting etc? Could this not fall under "transporation" as opposed to hunting? Furthermore can they actually claim "hunting" if you are in possession of a gun which is packed away as opposed to being displayed? Any thoughts on this? I have read the MNR website and its very ambiguous.
 
I see two options:
1: Get your hunting license. Figure out what is in season at the time. (I think crows are always in season, but I'm not sure about that. Maybe beavers? Wolves?) If you get stopped, that's what you're hunting.
2: Bear spray.
 
yeah but what about really far up north where the small games licence isnt good during the summer?
 
pricedo said:
:D

I carry my DA Outlaw when camping out in the bush in my pack sack all the time & it's totally inconspicuous.

The Northern Ontario bush is full of hungry bruins and anyone who camps out for several nights & prepares food in the bush is nuts to be without protection.

Given the choice between facing a Liberal judge or cycling through the bowels of a 300 pound predatory blackie I'll take the judge option every time.

Unless someone sees a gun there won't be a problem..........out of sight out of mind is the best policy.
Click to expand...

:agree:
Out of sight out of mind is a good policy...
"Everything" legal till your caught. IMO:sniper:
 
If your unarmed in the bush and man or beast appears, with intent, your going to be in a world of hurt and goodluck.
 
USP said:
Hmmm it seems they say that if you encounter a problem bear or are being attacked by a bear, call 911. I suppose if your in the bush and your cell phone doesnt work, you must hike out of the bush and find the nearest phone....

http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/Bearwise/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_167690.html
Click to expand...

they also say this

Think about safety:

Carry and have readily accessible a whistle or an air horn
Learn how to carry and use bear pepper spray. Know its limitations
If you are in “back country” consider carrying a long-handled axe

:D
http://www mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/Bearwise/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_167729.html
 
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so they openly admit Bear spray has its "limitations", yet they believe its an offence to have a firearm for predator protection. Perhaps If I was say walking a midget vietnameese potbellied pig I could say I was protecting my "livestock"?
 
Lawrence D said:
I agree with the above 100%, but figure out some thing that will keep the gun out of sight and accessible. You got some thinking to do about that one. BTW keep in mind that an unloaded gun is useless and a bear can be on top of you faster than you can say "oh 5hitt"............................:popCorn:

The bears residing in parks have been briefed not to attack humans or else they get evicted. That's why it is illegal to defend yourself in the parks. :bangHead:
Click to expand...

:D
BTW keep in mind that an unloaded gun is useless and a bear can be on top of you faster than you can say "oh 5hitt"............................:popCorn:
Click to expand...

Very True..........life is all about compromises & the DA Outlaw in the pack sack is the best Ontario compromise I can think of.

If you carry a visible gun in the woods in Ontario in the summer there are going to be problems just as sure as God made little green apples.

If the bear suddenly pops out of the alders I always have my Spivey "Sabretooth" knife on my belt unless CFO-Ontario can find a way to deprive me of that also.

If I hear/see the bear before it attacks me I can assemble & load the Outlaw in seconds.

A gun that's immediately available & always loaded would be a handgun which would require an ATC & there's no way the new McGuintyized Ontario CFO is going to allow that.
 
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

USP said:
so they openly admit Bear spray has its "limitations", yet they believe its an offence to have a firearm for predator protection. Perhaps If I was say walking a midget vietnameese potbellied pig I could say I was protecting my "livestock"?
Click to expand...

:D
I see nothing in the Federal or Ontario Provincial law that states or would imply that carrying a non restricted firearm for protection from predators in a wilderness setting is an offense.

If there indeed was anything in the law that prohibited me carrying the gun I would not do so because I am not a criminal & don't knowingly break the law.

I truly believe that there is nothing wrong with me carrying my DA Outlaw shotgun disassembled in my pack sack as a survival tool and I am not in any way trying to conceal illegal activities by doing so.

What I am trying to do is avoid the quasi legal (more correctly - illegal) hassle that I know I'd be forced to endure if a gun call were to be received by the local police or MNR.

As other threads on this forum would indicate there is a wide disparity between what should happen & what does happen in circumstances where people are interdicted by LEOs while carrying guns in Canada in perfectly legal circumstances especially in Ontario & Quebec & several horror stories have ensued where the rights of innocent persons have been grossly violated.

I believe that there is a clear & present danger to campers from predatory black bears in the Northern Ontario wilderness but have no desire to be hassled, strip searched in public, taken to the ground by a police SWAT team &/or charged with illegal hunting or bogus criminal code firearms offenses just because the Ontario government of the day has a "hate on" for gun owners so I maintain a low gun profile.
 
pricedo said:
:D
I see nothing in the Federal or Ontario Provincial law that states or would imply that carrying a non restricted firearm for protection from predators in a wilderness setting is an offense.

If there indeed was anything in the law that prohibited me carrying the gun I would not do so because I am not a criminal & don't knowingly break the law.

I truly believe that there is nothing wrong with me carrying my DA Outlaw shotgun disassembled in my pack sack as a survival tool and I am not in any way trying to conceal illegal activities by doing so.

What I am trying to do is avoid the quasi legal (more correctly - illegal) hassle that I know I'd be forced to endure if a gun call were to be received by the local police or MNR.

As other threads on this forum would indicate there is a wide disparity between what should happen & what does happen in circumstances where people are interdicted by LEOs while carrying guns in Canada in perfectly legal circumstances especially in Ontario & Quebec & several horror stories have ensued where the rights of innocent persons have been grossly violated.

I believe that there is a clear & present danger to campers from predatory black bears in the Northern Ontario wilderness but have no desire to be hassled, strip searched in public, taken to the ground by a police SWAT team &/or charged with illegal hunting or bogus criminal code firearms offenses just because the Ontario government of the day has a "hate on" for gun owners so I maintain a low gun profile.
Click to expand...



yup you pretty much summed up my thoughts on the matter.
 
+1 on the low profile.
Go out and buy a yoga bag. There are tons of different "non-threatening" patterns on the bags to choose from that'll make you look like a sissy to a CO and you won't get hassled. Those will usually hold a gun of 26 inches with no problems... if you need it then it's easy to access, and if you don't have time to pull it out you can just stick your hands in the bag and operate the gun effectively enough to save your life in a pinch.
 
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