Shotgun reload help please

zelly

zelly

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Just trying to do some reloading and have run out of 700x for my 7/8 loads. Have a few pounds of some vintage Winchester AA 452aa powder that's still good. Here's my question.

Tried searching for some loading info but the powder is too old and I don't have enough knowledge. I currently have old white Winchester WAa12l wads and the Grey clay buster equivalent. Using cheddite 209 primers and a mixture of aa hulls and remeington sts hulls. 12 Guage, 2 3/4 Using a mec Jr with a 7/8 bar and only have a number 28 bushing. I'm assuming I will need to put some powder in and take a measurement of how many grains it provides. Just don't have a fine enough scale. Any advice on this would be appreciated. Best case scenario I take the same everything that I used to load for the 700x and just substitute the new(old pwder) thanks
 
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Without load data I would never just substitute one powder for another.

I have some old books here and will see if I can find something on the 452aa powder.

Getting a decent balance beam scale would be a very good start.
 
Got this info so far from a very helpful member so still looking for more info.

Sorta "bad news" - not finding any loads listed at 7/8 ounce - lightest loadings that I see for 2 3/4" 12 gauge is 1 ounce. Primers listed are WW 209, Fed. 209, CCI 109, Rem 209. All charge weights given as 22.0 grains to 23.5 grains of 452AA powder - various wads - WAA12, Rem 29922(R12L), Fed. Pushin Cushin, White Arrow, Flite Max #6. Multiple hulls listed - for these on page 16 is 12 gauge 2 3/4" Winchester-Western Compression-Formed Cases, Double A, Double A Handicap, Upland and Super-X. Is described as "1 oz. shot: Very light Field or Target Load for children, etc. Nominal Velocity = 1150 fps.

Other 1 ounce loadings - Page 25 has similar wads, CCI 157 primers, 12 gauge 2 3/4" Remington-Peters SP Cases; Page 28 has WW 209 primers, Rem 209 primers, similar wads and Remington-Peters RXP Cases.

Is likely all old stuff that is mentioned - you will need someone more experienced at this game to help you with what you want to do - I can only pass along what I found in this booklet. "Winchester-Western Ball Powder Loading Data: For Shot Shells, Center Fire Rifle and Pistol Cartridges" - Second Edition - Rev. Nov. 1976
 
same info here, starting at 1 oz.

I have the data from:
Winchester ball powder loading data first edition, reprinted in June 1973,
Lyman shotshell handbook 2nd edition
Reloading for shotgunners 2nd edition



I'll take a picture and upload it in a bit.
 
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Thank you so so much for that info. Looks like I want about 22 grains for my 209 cheddites using 1 ouch and clay buster wads. Just need to figure out what number bushing will do that I the mec Jr. Wonder how I figure that out...? Again thanks everyone for the input. It's nice for people to take time out of their life to help others
 
I hope for your sake that your guesses and assumptions are correct. I did not see any mention of Cheddite primers nor CB wads in any of that loading data. I did not see the hulls that you say that you have in that data either. And you apparently have no way to verify what weight that your bushings are delivering. Maybe it will all turn out fine for you?
 
zelly said:
Thank you so so much for that info. Looks like I want about 22 grains for my 209 cheddites using 1 ouch and clay buster wads. Just need to figure out what number bushing will do that I the mec Jr. Wonder how I figure that out...? Again thanks everyone for the input. It's nice for people to take time out of their life to help others
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You really need to get yourself a scale, a good used ohaus/lyman/rcbs magnetically dampened balance beam can often be found for around 50 bucks.

The weight per volume should be close to 700x but you should not use that without weighing yourself.
Do the math percentage wise (!!) using the available chart for 700x to see the percentage differences between bushings compared to the 28 bushing.

Then multiply the percentages with the exact(!) amount of grains of 452AA your #28 throws and you have a very good estimate.
But it still needs verification with a scale.

Every reloader needs a decent scale at the bare minimum.
 
Potashminer said:
I hope for your sake that your guesses and assumptions are correct. I did not see any mention of Cheddite primers nor CB wads in any of that loading data. I did not see the hulls that you say that you have in that data either. And you apparently have no way to verify what weight that your bushings are delivering. Maybe it will all turn out fine for you?
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Don't worry I will get my brother ,sister,dad to shoot in the skeet squad ahead of me.
 
fiddler said:
Get a Universal Charge Bar for your MEC press and forget all about bushings forever.
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Is what I did for MEC loader for 28 gauge. Maybe did it wrong, but I set the openings by weighing the result on reloading scale. Turns out was no need to ever change that initial setting, so I could likely have made or altered bushings to throw what the recipe wanted. I suppose would be different if swapping out to different powders or to different shot load weights, but I have never done so. Kinda silly of me to get "adjustable" thing, and then never had to "adjust" it. Somebody on CGN bought the bushings and the bushing charge bar (I think); also from CGN EE is where I got the Universal Bar.
 
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OK - I have a Winchester shotshell brochure (12th edition) that lists a 7/8 oz load with 452AA powder.

Win AA hulls - 2 3/4 in
Win 209 Primer
19.0 grains 452AA powder
WAA 12SL wad
1210 fps @ 7100 LUP

There is a note saying to apply no wad pressure. Finally, at these pressure levels a fella could substitute Cheddite primers with no risk.
 
I have very little experience at loading shotgun shells - same recipe given in Post #17 is found on Page 19 of the link to Edition 14. Note the hulls that were used. I would not know if that is significant or not - I am very much stuck on the thing to use the exact recipe - although I know that apparently some components can be safely swapped with others. For example - the wads - I do not know if the WAA 12SL is same or not as a WAA 12S wad, so for me - I use the components listed in the recipe.
 
The WAA 12SL is nominally for 1 oz loads, the WAA 12L is nominally for 7/8 loads. They have different shot cup sizes, however, they are very close. So, depending on your powder density, the WAA 12SL may be suitable for a 7/8 load. Of course, if the stack is too low, you can always use a shot card to compensate.
 
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