Shotgun Reloading help

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Letzride

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Hi all - I am new to the forum and new to reloading. Awhile back I bought myself a Mec Jr reloader for shotgun reloading. I intended to dive into reloading starting with shotgun loads with my Grandfather who had done this for many years. Unfortunately within a month of me buying my loader he passed away sudden and unexpectedly. He was the only person I had to turn to with learning this stuff and so come many questions I never got to ask. Long story short, I got all his reloading gear but everything has sat on the shelf for the past year and a bit as I just haven't had the motivation.

Now I am finally getting around to a few things and have pulled the Mec Jr back out looking to do some loads...I have shells, wads, powder, all the recipe books, pellets etc. I've read through the books, watched YouTube videos and when he was alive we had some pretty in depth conversations, so I have a pretty good grasp.

One of the things I can't figure out though is determining what type of hulls I have. He had a bag full of every type of shot shell there was for 12ga as pictured below...

In my book it talks about Remington STS Plastic cases, Fiocchi plastic cases, Federal Plastic cases, Federal gold medal plastic cases, cheddite plastic cases, winchester plastic cases and probably others...but I can't for the life of me be sure how to tell which is which? I have the 5th edition shotshell reloading handbook and am referencing page 33 where it shows you each of the hulls and their specs.

I think they might be as follows?

- blue challenger shell is - Cheddite Plastic with plastic basewad?
- Red winchesters that look smoothish but have subtle ribs - Winchester HS Plastic with plastic basewad? But the book says these have low brass and the bottom of these hulls are silver in colour? or maybe these are Winchester compression formed plastic?
- Grey smooth hull - no clue?
- Maroon Federal ribbed hull - This looks like high brass to me and possibly Federal Plastic with paper basewad? or maybe it is Federal one piece plastic? It has 8 crimps on the end and both of these options say it should have 6? The only Federal maroon colour hull that has 8 crimps in my book is the Federal Gold Medal Plastic - (the bottom of the hull does say Gold Medal on it as well) however, it states low brass and to me this looks high brass in comparison to the other hulls?

Can anyone help walk me through figuring out what I have? Many thanks in advance.

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Well I just learned I can't upload any images so I suppose I can email the image of the hulls to anyone that wants to help
 
things to look for:

1) steel base or brass. This separates the cheap hulls from the ones you want to reload. use a magnet.
2) blue are most likely challengers- these are cheddite straight hulls
3) grey smooth hulls are most likely winchester AA sporting- great hull to reload. Tapered.
4) red winchesters that are ribbed likely have steel base. These load similar to the AA hulls but are flimsy and can be trouble unless you have everything dialed. I'd avoid them, but they load the same as the AA's.
5) federal gold medals : I've never come across enough of them to load.

Where are you located?
 
Ideally you want to stick with one type hull so you only have to adjust your press once.

Best are hulls that have base and wall made out of one piece plastic (not talking about the metal base with rim), these are so called tapered since the wall of the hull is thicker near the bottom compared to the top.

Steel base ones like remington gun club are ok to reload just harder to size. They size best in a mec collet sizer.
They are much easier to find for half the price of AA or STS hulls.
 
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cartwheel said:
things to look for:

1) steel base or brass. This separates the cheap hulls from the ones you want to reload. use a magnet.
2) blue are most likely challengers- these are cheddite straight hulls
3) grey smooth hulls are most likely winchester AA sporting- great hull to reload. Tapered. - When you say tapered how can you tell? They say AA on them but my eyes can't detect a taper? Bertn below you said the wall of the hull is thicker near the bottom compared to the top, but how do you tell that?
4) red winchesters that are ribbed likely have steel base. These load similar to the AA hulls but are flimsy and can be trouble unless you have everything dialed. I'd avoid them, but they load the same as the AA's. - Why are these trouble? And steal base I am guessing then is silver in colour vs the traditional gold coloured brass?
5) federal gold medals : I've never come across enough of them to load.

Where are you located?
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Thanks for the response - I put some questions back in red beside your answers. I am located in Toronto

Bertn - you mention that the ones with the steel base size best in a mec collet sizer - I have this one but I thought it went with his mec jr for the steel shot press he has - is this what you are referring too? https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1833782021/mec-super-sizer
 
Feseral Gold Medal are always marked with Gold Medal on the base. Excellent hull, will last and last. The promo and hunting Federals such as Top Gun, League and Field don't have the Gold Medal stamp and have a pressed paper internal basewad rather than the integral plastic basewad of the GM. Capacity of the two types is about identical but because of the different characteristics of the two base wads the ballistics are slightly different. Most loading manuals will show very similar loads for these two variations with near identical ballistics for standard velocity target loads and they both crimp well but the Gold medals will outlast the others by a wide margin. As mentioned already, the best cases for reloading are those originally manufactured as a company's best target load and most of these have real brass bases. Winchester AA, Remington SPS and Nitro 27 and Federal Gold Medal are probably top choice and will show the largest number of tested loads with the biggest choice of components. Try to accumulate enough once fired hulls of your choice, settle on a good moderate target load, buy a good quantity of these components and away you go. Much simpler from a logistic viewpoint to standardize.
 
All Winchester AA, Remington STS and Nitro 27 have a tapered interior, which gives them less internal capacity. Loads for these shells are quite different from those for straight walled cases such as Federal, Challenger, Fiocchi which shows up in all the loading manuals, using different wads and frequently different powders and definitely different charges. Stick EXACTLY to published loads with moderate pressures that produce your desired velocity, usually 1150-1200 feet per second with 1 1/8 oz loads and 1200-1250 feet per second for 1 ounce loads. These are usually identified in the manual as target loads.
Steel base hulls can be silver or plated with brass, colour isn't a reliable indicator, use a magnet ( or the name on the hull), brass is not attracted to a magnet. The steel ones will reload fine if they have an eight point crimp but with a little more effort and won't last through as many loadings. If you want to see how some hulls are tapered and some not, put a few different ones in a vice and cut them in half lengthwise with a hacksaw. Most of the manuals illustrate this clearly, in living colour.
The MEC SIZEMASTER makes easy work of resizing steel based hulls but adds another step, a waste of time compared to using better hulls to start with.
 
What is the difference between high/ low brass on hulls? Also I am getting confused on integral plastic basewads vs integral plastic basewad - I was understanding that wads are the plastic insert that is put into the hull during reloading? Not something that is built into the hull itself?
 
The basewad is pressed into the hull or and integral part of the hull from factory. If you cut some different hills as Ashcroft described you will see what they’re referring to. You’ll also get to see the tapered vs straight hull reference when you do so.
 
Get onto to YouTube and watch Fortunecookie45LC, he has some great video's about shotshell case differences. All great info and I understood it about shell makeup, but it never really clicked until I bought the Lymon Shotshell manual. I had been always matching shell makers brands, but this is not necessarily true, it has more to do with how the hulls are formed, and the construction process. Each hull has a different characteristic, and many can be grouped together by construction. The Lymon manual goes into great details, and classes hulls into construction. Understand hull capacities are determined by basewads construction and tapered wall thickness.

Myself (starting out) just slapped them together with what I had on hand (*no more*). I load steel, slugs and buckshot (Lee Melt Pot, LEE molds for buck and slug), if I find leadshot in estate sales I buy or online for guys getting out the hobby. This week Cabelas has a sale on Gun Club lead shot for $6.99 per box and you cant make it for that price.

High Brass and Low Brass explanations on youtube are great. I use all high brass shells for Steel, buck, and loads. Mostly all Winchester Super X (waterfowl), Blindside shells with lots of Kent as well.

I am a bit of a rebel when testing and I call playing. I continue to experiment with Crossman BB (#1 size) and getting good groups with BPI WAD 12ga TPS 3" 1-1/4 STEEL - BPI-3227702 with no over pressure using Alliant Steel powder, and also steel shot blasting (sand blasting) media for shotshell. Before everyone tears me apart, only modified choke and older guns (no full chokes), so far all has good and no pressure spikes. (old single shot fixed choke guns).

Another good guy on YouTube is Bubba Roundtree, he has done tons of testing on Buck/Ball/Slugs in shotgun reloads. Again these two youtubers are not offering tried and tested reloading manual data, just what worked for them.

I started like you following the footsteps of my oldest brother who reloaded when I was too young to understand it, and I thought I would save money. No money to be made or saved in shotshell reloading, but it sure is fun to develop a custom 3" coyote close in punisher (9 X .32 Cal buckshot, with #4 lead filler and BP buffer, wad and homemade overshot card), they don't walk, run, or crawl away inside of 35yrds.
 
OttawaHunts said:
.I had been always matching shell makers brands, but this is not necessarily true, it has more to do with how the hulls are formed, and the construction process. Each hull has a different characteristic, and many can be grouped together by construction.
Click to expand...

Mind you hulls with same construction but different brand can have slightly different length (win AA vs. Rem sts/gun club for instance). Mixing these up will give inconsistencies in final crimp and might leave you with some rounds that don't close completely.
 
Letzride,
Get the Lyman book and read it, maybe twice. I recommend that before Youtube as some of the info there is opinion.
Never be afraid to ask question like you did.
Not many reload shotgun anymore due to the price of lead shot but there are still a few. BS and slugs are still reloaded to save $
 
As suggested, read and understand a good shotgun reloading manual or two - the whole thing. This will help you understand the information you have been given here.
Basewads can be fibre (paper usually) or plastic. Fibre are a separate piece which is inserted during the hull manufacture. Plastic can also be a separate inserted piece or can be incorporated into the hull itself during the plastic molding phase of the hull construction as part of the shape of the hull. Basewads, either fibre or plastic, can be different heights which of course means that very similar appearing cases could have very different interior volumes which of course means that there would also be very different load characteristics. These internal differences with base wads are many and poorly documented because of the great variety. They can be very hard to differentiate without sawing a few in half or maybe examining under good light and actually measuring internal depth. To make things more difficult, some case makers such as Fiocchi make visually identical hulls for different ammunition manufacturers with different basewad heights! And case colour is not reliable identification. The metal base height ( or lack of metal in some hulls) has no bearing on internal capacity or on loading data, this is a holdover from the days of paper shotgun shells, may have helped lessen swelling on waterfowl loads or improved functional reliability in some repeaters but was mostly a marketing gimmick.
All of the above leads back to settling on one ( or maybe two) good best quality brand name target hulls, select an appropriate load with readily available components, throw the oddball hulls away.
 
OttawaHunts said:
Get onto to YouTube and watch Fortunecookie45LC, he has some great video's about shotshell case differences. All great info and I understood it about shell makeup, but it never really clicked until I bought the Lymon Shotshell manual. I had been always matching shell makers brands, but this is not necessarily true, it has more to do with how the hulls are formed, and the construction process. Each hull has a different characteristic, and many can be grouped together by construction. The Lymon manual goes into great details, and classes hulls into construction. Understand hull capacities are determined by basewads construction and tapered wall thickness.

Myself (starting out) just slapped them together with what I had on hand (*no more*). I load steel, slugs and buckshot (Lee Melt Pot, LEE molds for buck and slug), if I find leadshot in estate sales I buy or online for guys getting out the hobby. This week Cabelas has a sale on Gun Club lead shot for $6.99 per box and you cant make it for that price.

High Brass and Low Brass explanations on youtube are great. I use all high brass shells for Steel, buck, and loads. Mostly all Winchester Super X (waterfowl), Blindside shells with lots of Kent as well.

I am a bit of a rebel when testing and I call playing. I continue to experiment with Crossman BB (#1 size) and getting good groups with BPI WAD 12ga TPS 3" 1-1/4 STEEL - BPI-3227702 with no over pressure using Alliant Steel powder, and also steel shot blasting (sand blasting) media for shotshell. Before everyone tears me apart, only modified choke and older guns (no full chokes), so far all has good and no pressure spikes. (old single shot fixed choke guns).

Another good guy on YouTube is Bubba Roundtree, he has done tons of testing on Buck/Ball/Slugs in shotgun reloads. Again these two youtubers are not offering tried and tested reloading manual data, just what worked for them.

I started like you following the footsteps of my oldest brother who reloaded when I was too young to understand it, and I thought I would save money. No money to be made or saved in shotshell reloading, but it sure is fun to develop a custom 3" coyote close in punisher (9 X .32 Cal buckshot, with #4 lead filler and BP buffer, wad and homemade overshot card), they don't walk, run, or crawl away inside of 35yrds.
Click to expand...


sounds like you are well dialed in on shotguns, where can I find lead 00 buck?
 
Before I started casting lead buckshot, I used to buy it from Cabelas, (5lbs box of Hornaday), or Higgissons in Hawkesbury Ontario. Look/Call around I am sure you find it locally. Getting into the whole lead casting opens up many more opportunities to use the MEC, but really other then steel reloading (which I do as a hobby and for consistency), not much $$$$ sense, unless you are in clay shooting in a big way. Even then clay shotshell is still not cost effect, if you have to buy the lead shot. I keep all my thrift/estate lead shot finds in case the SHTF and have hundreds loaded. Find a local club and collect all the used hulls. I take all they will give, usually several garbage bags, and recycle the "good for reloading" and also keep all brass rejects, each year I take 30 or pounds of scrap brass to local metal recycler and swap for lead (roof flashing, and lead pipe recovery). Getting the wheel weights are getting harder to come by these days. I also, have buddy who owns a plumbing company and we trade lead, lastly watch boat yards and you can lead keels from sailboat either in hard solid cast or drop shot. It has taken me a couple years to to build 500LBS + of lead. It sells for about $2 pds locally. I am in the Ottawa area.
barsik said:
sounds like you are well dialed in on shotguns, where can I find lead 00 buck?
Click to expand...
 
3macs1 said:
The first thing you have to do is buy this and read it
ALL of your questions will be answered
Cheers

Lyman Shotshell Handbook 5Th Edition
Click to expand...

That is the book I am referring to, specifically referencing page 33 where it shows you each of the hulls and their specs and where my questions have come from. I am going to cut some shells open when I have the chance, but I was hoping someone would be able to post a pic or two so I could see and understand what the plastic basewads being referenced are and what they look like on these shells. I am also still having a hard time identifying some of my hulls based on that book.

I am happy to hear that the Federal Gold Medals are an awesome hull because I have quite a few of them
 
Some examples
federal (straight) paper and plastic basewads https://images.app.goo.gl/DKJ44SrpPL3kjn3PA more here https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=467205
Win AA old type (tappered) Hull on the left https://images.app.goo.gl/FBChLF7ihoKPhSr17 these were one piece and you can see the hull get thicker as it get towards the primer
Win AA current (still considered tappered) https://images.app.goo.gl/Vt7hhndHCBc3WQ779 these have a basewad that comes up the sides and is 2 piece

It should be very obvious once you cut them open. Also the reloading book tells you which wad to use for the brand of hulls.
 
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Tagged for internet as am looking to try my hand at loading 8 pellet 00 buck to achieve the tightest patterning Match competition loads that don’t use a flight wad.
 
First step is to cut sample hulls in half - the construction will become obvious.
Reduce the different types of hull and focus on one premium hull for reloading. Life gets simpler.
By premium, I mean AA, STS, Nitro 27, or Gun Club.
 
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