Shotgun shot sizing - how to do??

Potashminer

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Well, bullet making forum - maybe not really "bullets", but lead dribbled shot. If this is wrong forum, let me know where it should go.

So, a lead dribbler - makes round-ish lead balls - hoping to get to what the British would call #7 shot - so 0.100" diameter - seems there is plus or minus .005" to that, so actually .095" to .105" diameter is the objective. I suspect that I need an "oversize" screen that will allow .105" to pass through, then an "undersize" screen that will allow less than .095" to pass through - object would be the "mids" - the stuff that comes off, but does not pass through the "undersize" screen.

Another use - I can see in a partial bag purchase - quite clear there are multiple size shot in there - I would want to screen out the big guys - say the #5 or #4 that appear mixed in, from the nominally # 7 1/2 that was supposed to be in the bag.

Has anyone done this? Any hints from where to buy reasonable sized screen cloth for this - I am thinking 12" x 12" or so, not the 5 foot x 3 foot stuff like I had seen in mining refineries. At this stage, I would be quite content to be able to sift and "classify" 3 to 5 pounds at a time - not really looking at hundreds of pounds per hour capacity. I doubt very much that I would ever have more than 50 or 60 pounds in a batch to go through.
 
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Geologist supply companies supply sifting screens of various sizes of screen that you can pick. About 1 ft diameter and you can stack them how you wish.
Called sieves ...they come in nice brass ones or cheaper plastic holding the screens .
Wildrose Geology Supplies in Calgary is a good place .
 
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I've been using various wire mesh "in-boxes" for office use for a while along with a bunch of different pasta strainers. They tend to be a PITA because of the way some tear drop shaped shot from early in the run will stick but they do the job. All of them are from thrift stores.

any mesh will allow the occasional rice shaped piece through so you still need to check
 
thanks for the link.

do you perhaps know the mesh sizes that work best for #7, #7.5 and #8 shot

ordered something for work from them not too long ago and I was pleasantly surprised with the shipping cost and speed of shipping, fast and very reasonable cost.

I think you need .080 for 9's, .090 for 8's & .095 for 7 1/2's.
 
I think you need .080 for 9's, .090 for 8's & .095 for 7 1/2's.

I was never a refinery operator at the mine, but I think to screen granules to a specific size, you need to know a minimum size and a maximum size and then need at least two screens - top one does not let "too big" through, bottom one lets "too small" go through - desired stuff comes off the top of the second screen - its not too big, nor too little. If you only have one screen, then that size, plus anything smaller, goes through.

Made sense to someone at some time, but finding various charts that the British, USA, and others like Australia, may use same "shot number" to ID shot, but they are different sizes compared to each other. So a British #7 shot pellet is not the same size as a USA #7 shot pellet. Then, need to know the plus /minus tolerances for the sizes - I think in USA system (maybe British too??), can have a particular size of pellet that would fit correctly as large size #5, normal size #4 and small size #3. That pellet would be correct diameter for either of those three size shot. So a bag that is labeled #4 shot might have pellets that could be #5, #4 and #3 and would meet spec - .013" plus or minus .001". Then read that the plus/minus tolerance is cut in half for "target shot", but have not found definition of what size is difference between "hunting" and "target" shot. As mentioned - apparently made sense to somebody, at the time. I will just stay with trying to get round .100" diameter plus /minus .0005", whatever size that might be called. I can measure .105", but can not measure "#7".
 
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Are you making your own shot, or simply trying to sort reclaimed shot?

It started with a "good deal" purchase of 20-ish pound bag of commercial lead shot that was previously opened - just looking at it after getting the bag home and pouring it out - is obvious to me that various sizes were poured in and mixed - quite sure I am looking at some #5, if not #4, mixed into to the bag that is labeled 7 1/2. So, in a way, that would be like sorting reclaimed shot??

Then found good discussion on-line about making a dribbler - I think was primarily by a guy in Britain user name "sittinginhedges" or similar. Struck me as a way to waste days and spend hundreds of dollars before just buying a Littleton or similar. For example, I bought a Lincoln Mig-Pak180 welder at Canadian Tire, justified in my mind primarily to weld up this dribbler thing. Now having to learn to weld. And then stove top range element and control bought at Home Hardware store. eBay purchase of specific sized dribbler nozzles. And so on. Does not quit. But, I am on a "mission" - some might understand - many will not!!! :)

All about feeding my 28 gauge shotgun - I do have MEC loader, wads, hulls, powder and primers as per recipe. As per a John Barsness article - he was very specific about the benefits of # 7 shot in 28 gauge for grouse and pheasant - at least in Montana. The commotion that a guy goes through to get a limit of what - 3 birds, now-a-days???
 
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Geologist supply companies supply sifting screens of various sizes of screen that you can pick. About 1 ft diameter and you can stack them how you wish.
Called sieves ...they come in nice brass ones or cheaper plastic holding the screens .
Wildrose Geology Supplies in Calgary is a good place .

Thank you - I had seen similar used in Potash mine Loadout - samples of granular stuff going into railway cars - apparently, sizing of that stuff was important to customer - so, a stack of those sieves - specific volume scoop of product onto top of it - placed on a shaker or vibrator for specific amount of time - then operator weighed and recorded the weights left on various sizes of the sieves down through the stack. Probably exactly what I need!!
 
It started with a "good deal" purchase of 20-ish pound bag of commercial lead shot that was previously opened - just looking at it after getting the bag home and pouring it out - is obvious to me that various sizes were poured in and mixed - quite sure I am looking at some #5, if not #4, mixed into to the bag that is labeled 7 1/2. So, in a way, that would be like sorting reclaimed shot??

Then found good discussion on-line about making a dribbler - I think was primarily by a guy in Britain user name "sittinginhedges" or similar. Struck me as a way to waste days and spend hundreds of dollars before just buying a Littleton or similar. For example, I bought a Lincoln Mig-Pak180 welder at Canadian Tire, justified in my mind primarily to weld up this dribbler thing. Now having to learn to weld. And then stove top range element and control bought at Home Hardware store. eBay purchase of specific sized dribbler nozzles. And so on. Does not quit. But, I am on a "mission" - some might understand - many will not!!! :)

All about feeding my 28 gauge shotgun - I do have MEC loader, wads, hulls, powder and primers as per recipe. As per a John Barsness article - he was very specific about the benefits of # 7 shot in 28 gauge for grouse and pheasant - at least in Montana. The commotion that a guy goes through to get a limit of what - 3 birds, now-a-days???

Oh okay, I wasn't sure on what scale you were going about this. I made some dripped tin can apocalypse shot (pretty crude I must say!), and I drilled holes in thin metal items with common drill bits to shake through for a rough size. Probably not the way to go for 20 lb at a time sorting! Keep us posted how you make out with this adventure. I'm one of the guys who understands the "quest".
 
As per a John Barsness article - he was very specific about the benefits of # 7 shot in 28 gauge for grouse and pheasant - at least in Montana. The commotion that a guy goes through to get a limit of what - 3 birds, now-a-days???
As gun writers go, John Barsness is better than average. However, I will very specifically say there is no benefit to either a 28 gauge with #7 shot for pheasant in Montana - unless perhaps there's a deadline approaching and you're a gun writer.

My wife and I may not shoot as many cacklebirds in Montana over our Griffs every year as Barsness - but if we don't, it's pretty close. And not in one corner of Montana at one time of the year, but all over Montana during all parts of the season. There's quite a range of hunting conditions for roosters and sharpies in Montana:











If he's hunting somewhere, with a good pointer, and he's putting sharpies and cacklebirds up right at his dog's nose, then a 28 gauge and #7 is adequate. Adequate - not beneficial. There's a difference. A few ounces lighter than a similar 20 gauge if you're getting too long in the tooth to manage carrying the extra ounces in a bigger bore shotgun. Beyond that, it's a handicap and in my mind unethical for the birds.

I bought an Aya 28 gauge from Lee Strait about 1980 because it was the prettiest shotgun I'd ever seen and felt like a wand in my hands. I was a regular and fairly decent trap and skeet shooter at the time, so I wasn't a complete klutz with a shotgun. After a couple of hunting seasons, the Aya moved down the road to another home; far too many cripples for me to keep hunting with it. For hunting quail and Huns it was the bomb, but my hunting for those birds wasn't often enough for the Aya to remain in the gun safe when a replacement over/under with interchangeable 12 and 20 gauge barrels became available.

The maximum 28 ga. shot charge at that time as I recall reloading was 3/4 oz. of whatever flavour of shot you chose; in my case #6. Stack that in a tall, narrow 28 gauge hull, and the result is that even if you've spent hours shooting at the patterning board, sorting your reloads out to find what works best, flying through the air you have a long, strung out pattern in comparison to a 20 gauge for example. Definitely not optimal for reliably crumpling roosters or sharpies other than for the guys who can center the bird with the pattern every time.

Pheasant season in Montana starts in October; the season ends at the end of the year. The birds are already starting to feather out for winter by October, and pretty much in full plumage by November and December. And unless you've got a secret sauce CRP location, a land owner who allows only you and a few others, etc. the remaining birds as the year progresses get increasingly wily. Meaning they don't wait until you step on their tails before flushing. Meaning you're getting your opportunities further and further out, closer to the edge of the range where a 3/4 oz. pattern out of any gauge is no longer effective. And at ranges where the allegedly beneficial #7 shot in a light shot load is not carrying enough energy for the number of shot that arrives at the bird, versus a heavier charge of #7 and where switching to #6 gains energy, but now you're down to even fewer pellets arriving at the bird.

Other than for a specialist or in optimal conditions, a 28 gauge with #7 shot is a lose/lose proposition for pheasants and sharpies in Montana. Despite a Montana based gun writer saying otherwise. It just gets worse if you want to hunt one of the Heritage People reservations or federal wildlife/habitat reserves in Montana that compel the use of steel shot in a 28 gauge (which is irrelevant to your question about sorting #7 lead shot with other mixed in, of course).

My wife and I have been hunting pheasants in Montana with Griffs since we met hunting birds 25 years ago while she was teaching at the University of Idaho. What we have settled on as reliable cacklebird crumplers is 1 oz. of #7 first off out of the bottom barrel with IC choke, followed by 1 1/8 of #6 out of the top barrel with a modified for misses, or following birds. That's opening season with unwary birds. After that, it becomes 1 1/8 of #6 using modified, followed by 1 1/4 oz. of #5 with full choke. For wary/late season birds, even with the Griffs, the birds are getting up at 25 yards or so, and by the time your gun is mounted, they're out there.

Those combinations over the years have delivered the balance of being reliable bird crumplers with few cripples without tearing up the birds you center, resulting in less than optimal pheasant for supper that night. I will also suggest fairly confidently that you will find it far easier to find good pattern performance with a lot less experimenting and tuning the bigger the gauge. I.e. 12 is the easiest, .410 is the worst at the other end of the scale; number of pellets and shot string dimensions are what is at play.

None of that has much to do with sorting other sizes from #7 - a very good shot size that can be hard to source for reloading. But unless you have a plan that will put you on top of roosters and sharpies when they flush, 3/4 oz. of #7 out of any gauge is not going to be either beneficial nor optimal. Unless you're a shotgun sniper that centers them all, you're going to have too many birds that you just hit with the fringe of the pattern, cripples lost to die out in the grass that you would have put in the bag with 1 oz. or 1 1/8 oz. with the same fringe hits.

Anyways, I'm not a professional gun writer like John Barnsness, but I have shot a fair number of cacklebirds and sharpies in Montana and elsewhere over the last 40 years, and that's my observations and opinion based on that experience. Montana upland hunting varies too much: from summer like conditions to full winter; wide open prairie to your dogs rooting out wary roosters hiding in the cattails surrounding reservoirs and potholes.

However, I do think that whatever 28 gauge wand you have would be just about perfect for huns and quail in Montana or pretty anywhere else loaded with that #7 shot. There, I think, you could say it would be beneficial; you can end up walking a long, long distance on canyon and ravine and reservoir rims in northeastern Montana to get your chances at quail.
 
Hey, Rick - I truly appreciate the time you took to post pictures, and on your reply. As you might have guessed, I have no personal experience at that and I do appreciate to hear someone else's experiences!! My own experience is mostly with a BPS 26" Modified choke 12 gauge - usually #6 shot - never did hunt over dogs - just walking pastureland and edges to raise up sharp tail and hungarian partridge. We saw lots of pheasant scooting among the grass and brush beside the Frenchman River, not far from Montana border, but that was mule deer season, and that whole area is now a National Park, as I understand it. I am now living with many more ruffed grouse here - so more about walking trails in poplar and bush - not the same as for the sharp tails, although we do see some flocks of them from time to time. .410 is used by a lot of people here - from casings found on ground - mostly because I think many have the .22 barrel on top for the ground sitting ones. All different here, than where I came from...
 
I'm guessing the .410 hulls you're finding on the ground are from those ground sluicing grouse for dinner - if there was a .22 barrel, it wasn't in use. But that's only a guess. I did a fair amount of ground sluicing grouse on the roadside or sitting on a branch beside the road growing up.

A 26" modified choke 12 gauge is well suited if your plans are for flushing cacklebirds and sharpies in Montana or elsewhere. Ditto the #6 shot. If you're flushing them, by the time you react and get on them, they're probably going to be at around 25 yards and accelerating. Once in a while I hunt with my Browning B2000 autoloader, just because. For that, it's the lighter load up the spout with a heavier load behind it, and the third a bit heavier yet. You can do the same thing with your pump. Just pick your load sequence expecting to react to birds flushing you don't know there, versus dog guys KNOW there's a bird in the grass in front of them.

BTW, that's why I get caught out and usually end up not shooting when a bird flushes wild in front of the dog; I'm loaded up for birds appearing at close distance, and my first round really isn't suitable for a bird at 30 yards and going like it's on steroids.

I don't know where you are in Saskabush, but the Glasgow/Fort Peck Reservoir area is not too far south of the border. There is tons of CRP land, ravines, gulches, gullies, etc to walk there for pheasants, quail, and sharpies. It isn't like there isn't enough grain grown there to keep them from starving to death. And you wouldn't be bumping shoulders with all the hunters. A non-resident bird license is relatively cheap, and the Form 6NIA won't cost you a penny.

I'm a little short on experience taking a whack at ruffies. Watching the Griffs work a sniff of a sneaky rooster trying to slink out the back door or a covey is probably more fun than the actual shot if you get it. I've followed one of my boys who worked a running pheasant for half an hour before he cornered it at the end of a flood irrigation ditch. The story didn't end with me having pheasant in hand. That one said "enough of this" and flushed wild when I got to about 40 yards from where my boy finally had him nailed down on point when he finally ran out of running room and had to cross open ground. But the time spent watching Jäger cast and track to hunt him down was well worth the whole thing.

I sure miss that boy; he's the one in most of the close up pictures. Lost him this day back in 2009. My heart dog.
 
Update: Post #3 and #6 seemed to lead to Macmaster-Carr - so ordered what I think I needed - got this reply, yesterday:

"Due to the cost and complexity of shipping our products to Canada, we are only able to accept orders from businesses and schools. We’ve canceled your order.

If this material is not for personal use, please resubmit your order online using the organization's name, and include a street address for delivery. We ship via Purolator and are unable to deliver to post office boxes. "

No reply yet, from lead given in Post #2 - so still looking...
 
Update: Post #3 and #6 seemed to lead to Macmaster-Carr - so ordered what I think I needed - got this reply, yesterday:

"Due to the cost and complexity of shipping our products to Canada, we are only able to accept orders from businesses and schools. We’ve canceled your order.

If this material is not for personal use, please resubmit your order online using the organization's name, and include a street address for delivery. We ship via Purolator and are unable to deliver to post office boxes. "

No reply yet, from lead given in Post #2 - so still looking...

Might be a bit more expensive, but if option 2 strikes out I can see if I can order it through work and then ship to you
 
Update 3-Sep: Screens that I think that I need are here - much thanks to those that assisted - you know who you are. Gotta figure out a wooden frame / rail for them and get this show on the road !!!
 
I’m no shotgunner, in fact don’t even own one. But curious as to the rough percentage of the heavier shot in the mix and why you couldn’t shoot it as is like a duplex load?
 
Yep, that thought has passed by more than once!! So far as I can follow in reloading recipes for shotgun, the actual shot size is irrelevant - is the total weight of the load that seems to matter for the breech pressure, so no reason that it would not safely go "bang".

It might even be a bit convoluted, since I think USA and Britain use different sizes for their shot names. In UK, for example, #7 shot is nominally 2.4 mm (.095"). In USA, that size lead shot is called #7.5. And not precise - each has a "plus to minus" size variation. I confused myself enough, to no longer use the shot size number - I am looking to make and to sort and to use .105" to .095" size shot, what ever that is called. More than one poster has mentioned using #6 shot for 28 gauge - for USA size, that would be .105" diameter to .115" diameter - so the next .010" larger. As previously mentioned, I have now found recipes, wads, powder, hulls, etc. for both 3/4 ounce and 7/8 ounce loadings for 28 gauge, so should be able to find something suitable.
 
Thank you - I had seen similar used in Potash mine Loadout - samples of granular stuff going into railway cars - apparently, sizing of that stuff was important to customer - so, a stack of those sieves - specific volume scoop of product onto top of it - placed on a shaker or vibrator for specific amount of time - then operator weighed and recorded the weights left on various sizes of the sieves down through the stack. Probably exactly what I need!!

Exactly what you need but not the cost. I used the brass ones at INCO in the last century and I bet they were expensive but lasted forever. Get a couple of used strainers from a second hand store and a couple of different drill bits and spend a bit of time drilling out some holes. You may have to go to numbered drill bits if you want to get real fussy. They may cost you a nickel but they can always be used for wood screw pilots. You may have to chamfer the holes if they are rough. Try running the bit in reverse so as not to drill through.
 
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