Should an 8 round 1911 mag lock into a closed action?

FyreFighter

FyreFighter

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I have a SAM Military Enhanced 1911 with very low miles (maybe 50 rounds total). In almost every circumstance, I remove the gun from the case, open the action to make it safe, insert a loaded magazine, and slingshot the slide closed.

I've been reading about Israeli carry and for the first time, I tried inserting a magazine into the gun with a closed action so as to leave the chamber empty. The magazine wouldn't seat. I tried with a different magazine, and it wouldn't seat either.

Oddly, I had no problems if I had 7 rounds in the mag. Both mags - the factory ACT mag and a KimPro Tac Mag - were affected. Both mags are relatively new/unused.

Is this an issue with the gun, the mags or is this expected behavior?

FF
 
depends on the mag - I have the same problem on my colt mk4 series 70- some do, most don't- I think it has to do with config of the follower- the ones that do are wilson
 
I don't have this problem on my SR1911. I had 4 factory mags, 1 8RD and 3x7RD. Then sold the 3 x 7RD and bought 4 x 8RD and 1 x 10RD Wilson, no problem with any of the Wilson either.


t-star said:
depends on the mag - I have the same problem on my colt mk4 series 70- some do, most don't- I think it has to do with config of the follower- the ones that do are wilson
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It most certainly should. Any mag should be able to lock into any gun when it's full to capacity. That's why the true capacity needs to be 1/2 round more than what it is intended to hold. It needs that room to move so it can be pushed into place on a closed slide.

When the gun is closed the spine on the lower side rides against the top round. When the slide moves back the mag spring is pressing that round tight against the spine. Only when it moves back far enough does the top round clear the spine and snap up against the lips of the mag.

if the follower and/or mag spring doesn't allow this "1/2 round" worth of movement then it just won't fit.
 
The venerable John Moses Browning designed the 1911 with it's 7rd magazine to seat on a closed slide. The firearm, in it's military application was to be fired 6 times (oddly enough, like the revolvers of the period.;)) and with one round chambered, change the magazine. This gives the individual an option of firing if threatened while reloading (oddly enough, an option that wasn't available if you were armed with a contemporary revolver...big selling feature.)
Regardless of the round count of the magazine it should seat on a closed slide, if it doesn't there's something wrong with the magazine.
 
The solution to this "problem" is to start nipping off the mag spring one coil at a time until you can RELIABLY seat an 8 round mag with one round in the chamber. Back in the 'good old days" of High Cap mags -they were NOTORIOUS for not seating properly - fire a round and the mag would puke out of the magwell ... not good especiallyin the middle of an IPSC field course. We learned these little "tricks" or suffered the consequences ...
 
Before you clip a coil, take the magazine apart and look at the follower. When you load 8 rounds, the follower bottoms out. Take a file and remove about a tenth of an inch of plastic from the bottom skirt of the follower. Now it can move a bit when loaded.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I will take apart a mag later this morning. I believe the follower is bent metal, so I don't know if there's a lot of room for filing down. Will report back shortly.

Thanks,

FF
 
I think it is a break-in issue and hopefully should resolve over time. While both types of mags (ACT and Kimber) display this issue, the ACT mag - which is older and has seen more use - does it less severely and only intermittently.

I disassembled the kimber mags and the entire thing is metal (except for the external bump pad) so there is no plastic to file.

If it does not resolve with break-in, I am going to have to clip the spring. I would like to remove as little spring as possible.

Sorry of this is a stupid questions: the upper end of the spring clips into the follower, but it doesn't appear that the lower end of the spring clips into the base plate. Removing a whole coil seems like removing a lot of spring. Does it make sense to remove a partial coil and just square up the end of spring as it is now?

Thanks,

FF
 
In civilized countries the 1911 is considered a fighting gun, and since it was designed as such, if you can't drop a half empty magazine and replace with a fully loaded one without first locking the slide back, the gun is broken and needs immediate attention. Since our culture leans towards target pistols rather than fighting pistols, this isn't supposed to matter, and high end target pistols may be made to tight tolerances having no place in a fighting gun. Ganderite provides the most likely fix.
 
As your magazines are newish,the mag springs may still be a bit stiff.Its not unusual for the mag to be a bit difficult to seat.Solution is to leave the mag fully loaded for a week or so and see if it becomes easier to seat.There is nothing wrong with the gun(the fact you can seat 7 round mags shows this),and clipping the spring is also not the way to go,this will lead to feeding problems later when the spring wears.

The other solution is to get magazines like Tripp or Wilson ETMs which have a longer magazine body,so the mag spring has more room to compress and is thus much easier to seat than mags which have the mag body length originally designed for 7 round mags.
 
If there's nothing at all for the spring to click into on the base plate then possibly you can clip off a half coil and tweak the bend to let it sit correctly. But I'd first check by loading to max capacity then using a stick of wood or something else to push down the rounds so you can use some force without denting the top round. Be sure that what you're feeling is the stack of ammo and follower hitting bottom on a coil bound spring before you start clipping.

It may just need a good bump of your hand to seat the fully loaded mag.
 
If the magazine won't seat at full capacity on a closed slide, the magazine is junk. If you have to modify a new part/magazine to make the gun work, it is junk.

TW25B
 
Let me guess, you've never worn new shoes that made your feet hurt until the were broken in. You've never driven your brand new car more carefully for the few few thousand km to let seals work in. You drink wine right out of the bottle instead of letting it breathe. If your baseball/hockey equipment doesn't mold to your body immediately, it is junk?

FF

TW25B said:
If the magazine won't seat at full capacity on a closed slide, the magazine is junk. If you have to modify a new part/magazine to make the gun work, it is junk.

TW25B
Click to expand...
 
With 8 rounders full, you have to seat the mag forcefully, as your partially compressing the top round against the bottom of the slide. Seat it like your trying to put it thru the top of the slide. You won't break the gun. If a solid wack on the base plate won't lock it in, ganderite has the solution for you in the above post. I tell my students to "hit that mag like your married to it!"....then hope none of them report me to my wife LOL
 
Never had any issues with the 5 NIB Colts & 3 NIB Springfields, all factory mags, plus Chip McCorm Shooting Star 8 rounders, Power 10's and Colt factory 7 & 8 rounds.

ALWAYS locks into place with fully charged magazine and closed slide....always.
 
FyreFighter said:
Let me guess, you've never worn new shoes that made your feet hurt until the were broken in. You've never driven your brand new car more carefully for the few few thousand km to let seals work in. You drink wine right out of the bottle instead of letting it breathe. If your baseball/hockey equipment doesn't mold to your body immediately, it is junk?

FF
Click to expand...

Shoes come in sizes that approximate the rough dimensions of a foot. Seeing as everyone's foot is a little different, you're going to have fit and comfort issues as the size of the foot and the size of the shoe are not exact numbers. Same goes for sporting goods..

I don't buy new cars because they're over priced and depreciate too much. However, the act of "breaking in" an engine is part of a normal and suggested practice by the manufacturer. Even though you may take it easy on your new car, it still operates as intended and designed during this process. Wine is nasty sh*t so I can't comment on the idiosyncrasies accustomed to those consuming it.

I know of no brand of magazine that requires you to "break in" the magazine or who advertises a magazine as being "X" capacity but won't seat or feed on a closed slide/bolt. If the magazine is marketed and sold as an eight round magazine, it had better work with eight rounds in the magazine and the slide closed and open or it's junk.

TW25B
 
plinker 777 said:
^ Ever shot Glock? I swear by gawd you can't get 10 rounds into the factory 10 round magazines by hand when they're new (if it weren't for the tool). They need to be broken in a bit.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much all I shoot is Glock, they will take all ten rounds and are designed to be dropped loaded and not grenade; Which is why they are so stiff. ;)

TW25B
 
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