Should I flame anneal?
- Thread starter chuck nelson
- Start date
Depends on your use. If you're a hunter firing 20 rounds a year, probably not. If you're looking for an edge in accuracy and consistency in your long range target shooting then yeah, it makes sense. Lots of debates on which method is the best. I use the salt bath setup from ballistic recreations. I have no complaints
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Annealing has to be done properly... often, it isn't
I use a Bench Source and flame anneal... I know others who use an AMP and flame anneal. Can't say one style dominates the other on the podium.
But for F CLASS, there are so MANY more things to get right... and then you have to deliver to the X ring in the winds to win at the National or provincial level.
I judge my progress by how tight my waterline can be... 1/4 MOA indicates to me that my process is better then I can hold.
If you decide to anneal, spend the money, get good gear and do it right... or don't do it at all.
Jerry
I use a Bench Source and flame anneal... I know others who use an AMP and flame anneal. Can't say one style dominates the other on the podium.
But for F CLASS, there are so MANY more things to get right... and then you have to deliver to the X ring in the winds to win at the National or provincial level.
I judge my progress by how tight my waterline can be... 1/4 MOA indicates to me that my process is better then I can hold.
If you decide to anneal, spend the money, get good gear and do it right... or don't do it at all.
Jerry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4raEJK9spdg
this is my annealing setup
this is my annealing setup
The value of annealing depends on many factors that should all be considered.
To save money on brass for my 223, I buy once fired IVI or Lake City brass. Once I'm done sizing this random brass I always anneal. The sizing can be very aggressive and the amount of sizing can vary considerably when using brass fired from random rifles. This sizing variability transfers to both hardness and dimensional variability on brass. Once this random annealed brass is fired in my rifle, the two are then married for the life of the brass.
By contrast, I have rifles used for precision, that have tight neck chambers. Since clearances are always kept to a minimum, the amount of resizing does not stress the brass much during the little resizing that's required after firing. For this reason, there is little benefit to annealing frequently.
I do always anneal after neck turning since that induces stress.
You can measure brass hardness to an extent, by the amount of spring back that occurs after sizing. You will find that if you use bushing dies and freshly annealed brass the bushing size used for first reload will need to get smaller after a couple firings where the brass hardens and more spring back occurs. This is hard to notice if you don't neck turn your brass, but easy to see if you do.
To save money on brass for my 223, I buy once fired IVI or Lake City brass. Once I'm done sizing this random brass I always anneal. The sizing can be very aggressive and the amount of sizing can vary considerably when using brass fired from random rifles. This sizing variability transfers to both hardness and dimensional variability on brass. Once this random annealed brass is fired in my rifle, the two are then married for the life of the brass.
By contrast, I have rifles used for precision, that have tight neck chambers. Since clearances are always kept to a minimum, the amount of resizing does not stress the brass much during the little resizing that's required after firing. For this reason, there is little benefit to annealing frequently.
I do always anneal after neck turning since that induces stress.
You can measure brass hardness to an extent, by the amount of spring back that occurs after sizing. You will find that if you use bushing dies and freshly annealed brass the bushing size used for first reload will need to get smaller after a couple firings where the brass hardens and more spring back occurs. This is hard to notice if you don't neck turn your brass, but easy to see if you do.
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For some just wanting to try annealing. I would highly recommend salt bath.
It’s very consistent.
It’s slow and you have to get your brass wet and dry it.
But it’s not a huge investment and you will see big gains on target.
I just upgraded to a second hand bench source from a friend that upgraded to an amp. But for the past 3 or 4 years it’s been salt bath. And I honestly think the only gain I’m making is not having to dry brass after.
Don’t have to worry about molten salt ether.
It’s very consistent.
It’s slow and you have to get your brass wet and dry it.
But it’s not a huge investment and you will see big gains on target.
I just upgraded to a second hand bench source from a friend that upgraded to an amp. But for the past 3 or 4 years it’s been salt bath. And I honestly think the only gain I’m making is not having to dry brass after.
Don’t have to worry about molten salt ether.
Munkey1973
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Regina, SK
For the longest time I sat on the fence about buying an Annealeez unit that is propane and runs on a timer.
I think they would be quite consistent once they are setup for a session... and $275 USD isn't too bad of price.
Seems like the downfall really is the tweaking of the timer (and especially the flame) for every session.
I waited and waited.. then the AMP came along.
And the AMP is likely to be far more consistent and definitely more easier to use.
But the price tag of even the first models... is pretty cost prohibitive for most reloaders.
Right now I use a homemade induction annealer with a timer down to the millisecond.
When I change cases, I just key in the right amount of time... simple !!
That being said, if I had ended up buying the Annealeez instead, I probably would have been satisfied with the consistency to this day.
Salt bath is another thing that I was looking at... seems to consistent enough as well .... but like a torch unit, the setup time would probably get old with me quick.
I don't have pics handy, but I made this video for a different thread some time ago.
I think they would be quite consistent once they are setup for a session... and $275 USD isn't too bad of price.
Seems like the downfall really is the tweaking of the timer (and especially the flame) for every session.
I waited and waited.. then the AMP came along.
And the AMP is likely to be far more consistent and definitely more easier to use.
But the price tag of even the first models... is pretty cost prohibitive for most reloaders.
Right now I use a homemade induction annealer with a timer down to the millisecond.
When I change cases, I just key in the right amount of time... simple !!
That being said, if I had ended up buying the Annealeez instead, I probably would have been satisfied with the consistency to this day.
Salt bath is another thing that I was looking at... seems to consistent enough as well .... but like a torch unit, the setup time would probably get old with me quick.
I don't have pics handy, but I made this video for a different thread some time ago.
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Munkey1973
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Regina, SK
^^^ very cool ... very simple .. very consistent ^^^
Thanks, 3 of the main reasons I went this route
I use a wooden home made annealer that is bolted to my bench in the garage. Set up dual torches, 20lb bottle.
I use the drill and socket method. I made a slide area for the drill so you just slide the drill forward till it stops and listen to the metronome on my phone. It’s very easy and quite consistent. My waterline is good out to 1040 yards. Brass is on 12th firing ( Hornady 6.5 CM )
If I shot F class, maybe need some more accuracy, but it can do 1/2 moa 3 round shots with this set up at 1040. It can’t be that bad, even for increasing the brass life.
I use the drill and socket method. I made a slide area for the drill so you just slide the drill forward till it stops and listen to the metronome on my phone. It’s very easy and quite consistent. My waterline is good out to 1040 yards. Brass is on 12th firing ( Hornady 6.5 CM )
If I shot F class, maybe need some more accuracy, but it can do 1/2 moa 3 round shots with this set up at 1040. It can’t be that bad, even for increasing the brass life.
