Should there be more prone or kneeling shooting in IPSC?

Should there be more prone or kneeling in IPSC?

  • Hell yeah, I like to get down and dirty, and get's my adrenaline running!

    Votes: 24 26.1%

  • I wouldn't mind one prone/kneeling stage in every match.

    Votes: 32 34.8%

  • One prone/kneeling stage per year is more than enough for me.

    Votes: 15 16.3%

  • Hell no, IPSC is about speed and fun; you want to be tacticool, join IDPA!

    Votes: 21 22.8%
  • Total voters
    92
PeterPan said:
Pat, if you want to silence your opposition run a nice level III match. I can assure you, I will come and help, will build a stage on my own, even if needed design one, but besides running 40-50 rounds matches 3-4 a year, I have not seen nothing more from Sharon. Now, please chill out, I don't want to be critical, rather offer help, but for something larger. Level III match in the GTA will sell quick. Think about it.
Cheers.
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And that's probably what bugs me the most, the attitude that if we don't do something to please the guys that already shoot lots of matches and travel all over the place, then we have done nothing. We have been putting on matches for the other guys, the Guys that can't get signed up for matches, the guys that can't afford the time or money to travel all over the province to shoot big matches. The local guys who can't get into their home club or matches near by. The guy that want to shoot because its fun, not because they think they are pro's.
Yeah, we did a fair bit this year, we just didn't do what YOU wanted.
I know you mean well Peter, and we would appreciate your help and input when we do put on a level III. But don't write us off as having done nothing because we've tried to put on matches for the regular guys.
 
I'd like to thanks Eugene at this point for the mother of all thread drifts, now back to the original thread. I'd like to see more kneeling and other positions. Low ports that have at least one target that can only be shot from that position will do the trick, others can be visible from there but at least force one target engagement from that position ad let the shooter decide if he/she wants to take more. Just be aware of the different sizes and ages of the competitors. Lots of low ports on a stage will be taxing to older or less fit shooters, a low port might be low enough to force a all shooter into a kneeling position but a shorter thinner shooter might not have to.
For shooters, be aware of when kneeling is beneficial, a crouch might be quicker to get in and out of position but if it slows your shooting down it may be better to go to a low kneeling position where your body can be more upright, head up and arms extended naturally. Too low of a crouch and you can end up bent too much with your head down looking out the top of your eyes, arms bent and extended above you head (Superman pose) which will slow down your recoil recovery. Sometimes it's best to crouch, sometimes not.
 
I understand the need for different and challenging set ups that require good shooting skill. DVC.....NOT DVC + PPC + a test of how low can I go..etc. The BB course covers kneeling and prone because there are times when those positions can be utilized. I would hope we are not heading in that direction, where an ability to kneel a lot or shoot thru low ports determines the outcome of a match. BTW...everything I have heard about PPC tells me those folks when a fast round for accuracy...not low PF ammo.
 
Everything determines to outcome of a match, no matter whether you see it once or on every stage. Everything counts. I guess it depends in how well you can get up and down that determines whether or not it affects your match, but the same could be said for sprints, shooting on the move, strong hand/weak hand, long shots, close hosing, or prop manipulation. A good match shouldn't weight heavily in any of these area, it should be well rounded and include all of them.
I've shot PPC and while most don't try to run loads that will barely punch the paper, I have seen a few that were close. Years ago I saw some loads that were specifically for the 7yd stage. They were 60gr .358 WC bullets, about the size of an aspirin tablet, over something like 1.5gr of Bullseye.(don't try to load these I'm not sure if the actual powder charge or seating depth) but they had about the same recoil as a .22 short...lol...and I don't think they'd fly much past 7yds.
 
One of the things that I think we are missing in a lot of our matches, as Pat has alluded to, is diversity. There is nothing more disappointing then coming to a match and finding 3 or 4 stages with your gun empty or gun located on something. Once is fine, more is just poor stage design. What makes a good match is where each stage tests a different skill and not trying to test half a dozen skills one stage. A typical one day match of 6 to 8 stages could have a weak hand stage, a prone stage, a kneeling stage, maybe a hoser stage and 32 round long stage would be a good start. My two cents on the subject.
 
Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I was getting at. Put another way, no one particular skill should dominate a match, at the same time we shouldn't be afraid to include certain tests because someone might not like it.
 
Since it was already brought up I'll mention the one shot stage. I put it in the match because it tested specifically a draw to a long shot. There was no way around it, you had to draw and hit a popper at about 35m. For most of us it definitely wasn't a one shot stage, and for a match with just over 50 rounds I saw a couple of shooters fire almost 30 rounds at that damned popper alone.
It was done as a unique stage, we've done 2, 3, 4, and 5 shot stages but I'd never done a one shot before, I'll probably never do or see one again but it was cool to try it once. One gentleman shot the match with a Colt Officers ACP out of an IWB holster (I'll let you younger folk google what those things are) it was hardly the ideal pistol, since there were a number of long shots at this match, not just on the one shot stage. FWIW Mrclean and I got a really nice email from him after the match. He said he had so much fun he was going to come out and help us with our matches, even if he wasn't able to shoot them. And that's the big picture here, someone can come out to a match with stuff that is not the ultimate gamer, competition gear and have fun.
 
PH Racing said:
You're awfully hung up on a stage that you didn't even see. But its not unusual for you to comment in things you know nothing about.
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I do know a thing or two about shooting even with my shot shooting career, but that's not the point. You got it all backwards. I am commenting and arguing your own "I know everything better then you" posts.
 
maurice said:
I understand the need for different and challenging set ups that require good shooting skill. DVC.....NOT DVC + PPC + a test of how low can I go..etc. The BB course covers kneeling and prone because there are times when those positions can be utilized. I would hope we are not heading in that direction, where an ability to kneel a lot or shoot thru low ports determines the outcome of a match. BTW...everything I have heard about PPC tells me those folks when a fast round for accuracy...not low PF ammo.
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Well Mo I thought that too until this past Sunday where I shot a PPC match with ammo that would be considered "hot". But most of the established PPC shooters were shooting rounds that would be considered soft indeed and likely never come close to making power factor in IPSC. I'm not bashing PPC shooters for their choice in ammo since I shoot about 1 PPC match per year. I'm just saying I was of the same opinion as you Mo.
 
I do know a thing or two about shooting even with my shot shooting career, but that's not the point. You got it all backwards. I am commenting and arguing your own "I know everything better then you" posts.
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So it's ok for you to talk down to people and act like a know it all, but you don't like it when you are on the receiving end? Ok, noted.
 
BTS_PEI said:
Well Mo I thought that too until this past Sunday where I shot a PPC match with ammo that would be considered "hot". But most of the established PPC shooters were shooting rounds that would be considered soft indeed and likely never come close to making power factor in IPSC. I'm not bashing PPC shooters for their choice in ammo since I shoot about 1 PPC match per year. I'm just saying I was of the same opinion as you Mo.
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what was Ken using? I sold him a bunch of factory 38. Argh....missed that match AGAIN! 3 gun in Dalhousie on the 21st BTW...90 rifle, 40rounds shot..50+rounds pistol...they will be using all the big stages..
 
you want a fun stage to shoot and even more fun stage to watch?. here it is, gun is unloaded on a table to start, target array can be what ever you want. shoooter starts in a box 15-20 feet away holding a baseball bat. on the start signal they must put the bat to their forehead, other end on the ground and do 15 revolutions before getting their gun.
 
PH Racing said:
So it's ok for you to talk down to people and act like a know it all, but you don't like it when you are on the receiving end? Ok, noted.
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I don't care about receiving end and it is certainly okay to talk down people acting "know it all" or "I've been shooting longer then you".
 
Of course there has to be kneeling stages or possibly prone, as mentioned herein, a little bit of everything to challenge and show skill from various positions, is part of the game. That said, I vote for it, but not too much of it either...just to have good balance and not to be too challenging physically, as our wide array of shooters are not all young and strong and healthy....
 
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