This post applies only to the old SIG internal one piece leaf spring style extractor.
A while ago I bought a P226 X5 allround on EE. To my disappointment when I first tried it I realized that I would get at least one failure to extract for every magazine I shot. Just to be clear by "failure to extract" I mean the case from the last shot fired stayed in the chamber which caused the gun to jam as it tried to chamber the next round. After digging around the Internet I have realized that many people on many different forums complained about the same problem but nobody seemed to have shared a plausible explanation to this problem or a way to fix it yourself. So I investigated the problem myself.
I first eliminated the usual suspects (Cleanliness, lubrication, tried different loads/powders, inspected the condition of the extractor and so forth). Nothing seemed to solve the problem.
I've found the first clue when I inspected the cases that failed to extract (sorry I do not have pictures and no longer have those cases). On all of them the extractor claw left a burr on the case rim that suggests it slipped off the case rim and pulled a bit of brass material while doing so. However the position of this burr was way shallower in the case rim grove than it should have been if the extractor was fully seated into the grove. This suggested that the problem was caused by the extractor being partially "lifted" outside of the rim grove, not the case being stuck in the chamber.
I then realized that when the barrel is locked the extractor sits at its lowest "resting" position because it is positioned below the center point of the case head. When the barrel drops to the unlocked position case lowers itself onto the extractor, acting as a cam that lifts the extractor slightly because of the case's round shape (see pictures below and notice how the extractor is slightly lifted in the bottom picture). But as it sits in the unlocked position, even though the extractor is being lifted by the case, it is still deeply seated into the rim grove. So what would cause it to lift away from the grove? The answer: Momentum. During firing the barrel drops to the unlocked position in a fraction of a second. At this speed the case rim cams the extractor outwards so fast that the extractor continues to lift under its own momentum after the barrel has finished dropping. When the extraction begins the extractor claw barely has any material to hold onto and simply slips off leaving a burr on the outer edge of the case rim.
Locked position:
sorry for the cleanliness (or lack thereof) of the gun.
Unlocked position:
(Notice how the extractor is slightly lifted in the unlocked position)
Since I do not possess a high speed camera to see exactly what is happening during the dynamic cycling of the gun the exact reason why this happens to some pistols but not others still is open to debate. But I can think of a couple of possibilities:
- The extractor spring is too weak
- The extractor claw reach is too far forward, giving too much time for the extractor to move outwards on its own momentum before the extraction begins
- The extractor claw reach is too short, giving it not enough time to spring back into the case rim grove before the extraction begins
- The extractor shape that causes it to cam out faster than it should when the barrel unlocks, giving it too much momentum
- In a regular SIG pistol residual pressures in the barrel could help with initial extraction, keeping the case head against the bolt face until the extractor springs back into the rim grove but the X-Five's heavier barrel and slide slows down the timing just enough that there is no residual pressure when the barrel unlocks. (this could actually explain why SIG switched to external extractor shortly after they began making their slides out of Stainless Steel)
- Something else I didn't think of
- A combination of some of these factors
The fix:
Regardless of what the true cause is there is a very simple fix: Increase the spring tension of the extractor. This way it will not move outwards as far under its own momentum and will spring back inwards earlier. I achieved this by cutting down a piece of stiff and sturdy rubber (The kind that will not rip easily. In my case I used an old Accuwedge) so it fitted snugly behind the extractor (see picture below). It is not visible in the picture but I have cut the piece of rubber so it steps to a thicker size underneath the extractor so once it is pushed in it locks in place. It hasn't moved from there since I've installed it.
Since I have done this I have fired thousands of rounds through this pistol and haven't experienced a single FTE again.
Obviously this mod is done at your own risk.
A while ago I bought a P226 X5 allround on EE. To my disappointment when I first tried it I realized that I would get at least one failure to extract for every magazine I shot. Just to be clear by "failure to extract" I mean the case from the last shot fired stayed in the chamber which caused the gun to jam as it tried to chamber the next round. After digging around the Internet I have realized that many people on many different forums complained about the same problem but nobody seemed to have shared a plausible explanation to this problem or a way to fix it yourself. So I investigated the problem myself.
I first eliminated the usual suspects (Cleanliness, lubrication, tried different loads/powders, inspected the condition of the extractor and so forth). Nothing seemed to solve the problem.
I've found the first clue when I inspected the cases that failed to extract (sorry I do not have pictures and no longer have those cases). On all of them the extractor claw left a burr on the case rim that suggests it slipped off the case rim and pulled a bit of brass material while doing so. However the position of this burr was way shallower in the case rim grove than it should have been if the extractor was fully seated into the grove. This suggested that the problem was caused by the extractor being partially "lifted" outside of the rim grove, not the case being stuck in the chamber.
I then realized that when the barrel is locked the extractor sits at its lowest "resting" position because it is positioned below the center point of the case head. When the barrel drops to the unlocked position case lowers itself onto the extractor, acting as a cam that lifts the extractor slightly because of the case's round shape (see pictures below and notice how the extractor is slightly lifted in the bottom picture). But as it sits in the unlocked position, even though the extractor is being lifted by the case, it is still deeply seated into the rim grove. So what would cause it to lift away from the grove? The answer: Momentum. During firing the barrel drops to the unlocked position in a fraction of a second. At this speed the case rim cams the extractor outwards so fast that the extractor continues to lift under its own momentum after the barrel has finished dropping. When the extraction begins the extractor claw barely has any material to hold onto and simply slips off leaving a burr on the outer edge of the case rim.
Locked position:
sorry for the cleanliness (or lack thereof) of the gun.
Unlocked position:
(Notice how the extractor is slightly lifted in the unlocked position)
Since I do not possess a high speed camera to see exactly what is happening during the dynamic cycling of the gun the exact reason why this happens to some pistols but not others still is open to debate. But I can think of a couple of possibilities:
- The extractor spring is too weak
- The extractor claw reach is too far forward, giving too much time for the extractor to move outwards on its own momentum before the extraction begins
- The extractor claw reach is too short, giving it not enough time to spring back into the case rim grove before the extraction begins
- The extractor shape that causes it to cam out faster than it should when the barrel unlocks, giving it too much momentum
- In a regular SIG pistol residual pressures in the barrel could help with initial extraction, keeping the case head against the bolt face until the extractor springs back into the rim grove but the X-Five's heavier barrel and slide slows down the timing just enough that there is no residual pressure when the barrel unlocks. (this could actually explain why SIG switched to external extractor shortly after they began making their slides out of Stainless Steel)
- Something else I didn't think of
- A combination of some of these factors
The fix:
Regardless of what the true cause is there is a very simple fix: Increase the spring tension of the extractor. This way it will not move outwards as far under its own momentum and will spring back inwards earlier. I achieved this by cutting down a piece of stiff and sturdy rubber (The kind that will not rip easily. In my case I used an old Accuwedge) so it fitted snugly behind the extractor (see picture below). It is not visible in the picture but I have cut the piece of rubber so it steps to a thicker size underneath the extractor so once it is pushed in it locks in place. It hasn't moved from there since I've installed it.
Since I have done this I have fired thousands of rounds through this pistol and haven't experienced a single FTE again.
Obviously this mod is done at your own risk.
