Sighting 'illusion' with stock Norc m1911a1

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Metman2

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This is more of a marksmanship question than one of equipment:

After shooting my stock norinco .45, I've noticed that shooting free-hand at 20 yards, the shots are fairly well-centred but are consistently 8" low (ulp!). With a pistol bench, however, they are 'bang-on' = around 4" grouping, which I suppose is to be expected from such a loose pistol. I've shot many bricks of .22 target (S&W, Ruger) with no such problem...

The obvious conclusion is to practice more with the 45. But has anyone else experienced something similar? I don't think it's the heavier calibre, since I've tried other guys' pistols without the same problem.

Is it possible that it's the low sights on the m1911? My own .22 pistols have sights that are considerably higher than those on the .45, and I've noticed that when raising the .45 to fire freehand, I have to make an extra effort to align the sights. It's as though I have a 'muscle-memory' of holding up my .22 at a certain level to align the sights, but this isn't the right position for the 45. And the 45's sight-picture has so much 'barrel' (slide) - it's almost like an optical illusion.

BTW, I used an old black oil-pastel crayon from my school-days to blacken the sights (and even the top of the slide on the .45)... it works real good to reduce glare and reflection. While it's not permanent, it doesn't rub off too easily.
 
Sounds like you may have a slight flinch there. Like you're anticipating the shot and pushing. This is fairly common and does just what you are describing.
 
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I have the same diagram, and I'd considered that this was at least part of the problem - or even most of it. However, I found even with a two-handed grip I had the same problem. Even dryfiring, it feels a bit unnatural to get the right sight picture, compared with my 22 pistols. The 45's trigger is mushy as well, but I'm quite happy to admit that the main problem is the shooter and not the equipment! :redface: Practice makes perfect - I just don't get out to practice as much as I'd like...
 
As far as the 4" group at 20 yards is concerned, I personally think that is good. It's a combat pistol after all!
 
...While it may not be the answer, have you tried a different "main spring housing" ? Maybe a change from "arched" to "straight" would help ....... David K.
 
When I first started shooting handguns, I always fired a newly-acquired pistol off a rest "to see where it's shooting".
I have now stopped doing that, as you'll never replicate shooting off a rest when shooting unsupported, unless you're very....VERY good.
I now start shooting a newly-acquired pistol standing, unsupported with a "Weaver-esque" grip on the gun. Once I see a pattern emerging, I'll know very quickly where the gun is shooting and with what ammunition.
Don't try to drive yourself nuts by mixing shooting off a rest and unsupported.
If I find a pistol is just not grouping, or something's obviously up, I will then fire it off a rest to see what's going on. However, most of our handgun shooting is done standing unsupported, so why not do it from the get-go?:)
Just my opinion, folks.
 
It's probably the sights. If you are hitting low while standing and your muzzle is horizontal, gravity starts to pull the bullet down as soon as it leaves the muzzle. If you are then shooting from a bench which is three feet lower and you are shooting at an upward angle to the target you are introducing a trajectory onto the equation and the gun will hit higher. Hope this helps.
 
Six Star said:
When I first started shooting handguns, I always fired a newly-acquired pistol off a rest "to see where it's shooting".
I have now stopped doing that, as you'll never replicate shooting off a rest when shooting unsupported, unless you're very....VERY good.
I now start shooting a newly-acquired pistol standing, unsupported with a "Weaver-esque" grip on the gun. Once I see a pattern emerging, I'll know very quickly where the gun is shooting and with what ammunition.
Don't try to drive yourself nuts by mixing shooting off a rest and unsupported.
If I find a pistol is just not grouping, or something's obviously up, I will then fire it off a rest to see what's going on. However, most of our handgun shooting is done standing unsupported, so why not do it from the get-go?:)
Just my opinion, folks.
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Well thank you for that.....

I have always been "double checking" my handguns by using a rest to see where it shoots, sometimes, well... most of the time I have a bad day at the range with holes all over the place so I'll go back to the rest time and time again to reassure myself that its not the gun - like I need reassurance of that! (I know damn well its my pathetic shooting):)
Then I get a little angry when it doesn't do what its supposed to with no rest so in the end it is not helping matters at all.

My problem is different than the original poster here but I'm taking this advice and staying off the rest and work more on what the hell I'm doing wrong when I pull the trigger.

Good advice.
 
Another little "trick" that I do to "correct" my shooting if I'm having a bad day is to simply move the target a little closer. :D There's a BIG difference between trying to group at 25 yards and grouping at 50 feet. And an even BIGGER difference when trying for groups at 35 feet. 45 to 50 feet is good, and you'll usually get some satisfying groups if you're gun's good and you're having a good day.
I've often come home spitting nails over my atrocious shooting...other days I'm bragging about what a pistoleer I am to anybody who cares to listen.
That's the way it is with handguns. ;)
 
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