Sighting in with gun rest, question

I use a Targetmaster rest and simply grip the wrist of the stock with finger on the trigger, don't hold forestock at all, just let the recoil happen.

But I believe you gotta tuck right down into the gun. Sitting too upright to me says you are 'recoil shy'.

For the record I shoot .300H&H, 9.3x62, .375H&H, .416RM, .458Lott. But the worst gun I've ever fired for recoil on the bench is a hot-rodded Marlin M1895 Guide Gun with the short 18.5" barrel. Way worse 'felt recoil' than the .458Lott due to the short barrel. That damn thing just bucked like a mule! It would cause my teeth to smash together.

An interesting thought - "recoil shy" - the "sit upright" technique was described, first that I read about it, in an article in Guns and Ammo magazine (late 1980's) by Elmer Keith - he was "bench resting" a 458 Win Mag - one of several of his articles / columns published (or, perhaps, re-published) after his death, in 1984. I suppose that you will have to take that up with him, if you two ever meet up.

A lot of "recoil", I think, is subjective - goes with stock fit and shooter technique - my son, when a skinny 14 year old - would off hand a magazine full with my Model 70 338 Win Mag, without issue. A fairly husky guy that I worked with at a mine claimed he would get the snot kicked out of him, when he shot his GrandPa's 30/30. Can read accounts of 1870's elephant hunters - 4 gauge black powder rifles - knocked them to the ground, knocked them off their horse, regularly.
 
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Late to the discussion but consistency is the key. Personally, I use a bipod. I only hold the rifle at the pistol grip. Target shooting, I try to support the butt stock.
This is similar to how I prefer to shoot in the field. I will rarely try a freehand shot unless the animal is very close.
 
Is one of those things I was told never to do - say 50 years ago - and never did it. I have seen pictures of BPCR shooters with what look like very heavy hex barrels on crossed sticks - very slim / dainty forearms - is clearly that heavy barrel on the sticks - so maybe not as "iron clad" rule as I was led to believe. I likely will now try it, to know for myself. So should you.

Is in my mind that the vibrations in barrel - as the bullet comes up the tube - are going to be different, if the support places on the barrel are changed, or the bullet speed is changed - the muzzle will be slightly different place in its oscilation as bullet exists - meaning bullet heading to different place - I think was basis for the "compensation" that was desired for the Lee Enfield No.1 long range target rifles. I suspect that if that support is always the same, can get tight groups. The issue is support one shot, then no support the next shot - I can not see the bullets going to same place - which is the point of "sighting in", I think.

When we shoot BPCR rifles with the barrel rested in cross sticks or on a bench rest, we make sure the barrel is placed in the same place every time, so the barrel harmonics are repetitive. it also makes a difference exactly where the barrel is placed, and the barrel is generally marked to ensure that.
The harmonic frequency is quite a bit slower with BPCR guns for several reasons, one being barrel time.......
Cat
 
I use a lead sled for target with my 300 wsm. I do not put weights on it nor tie it down. I like it to slide some. I have figured out that to get the hairs on sight one puts pressure on the stock. That pressure I believe causes the rifle not to shoot the same depending on how much pressure is applied. Now I take lots of time to adjust so that I am putting little to no pressure on the stock. Works for me.
 
I use a lead sled for target with my 300 wsm. I do not put weights on it nor tie it down. I like it to slide some. I have figured out that to get the hairs on sight one puts pressure on the stock. That pressure I believe causes the rifle not to shoot the same depending on how much pressure is applied. Now I take lots of time to adjust so that I am putting little to no pressure on the stock. Works for me.

Pressure on the stock - I had read about the very precise hand held bench rest guns - so typically smaller cartridge - like .224" or 6mm caliber - heavy rifles, like 12 or 15 pounds (?) - shooter makes about NO contact with the rifle - is held aligned only by the supports - is free to recoil upon firing - the exact same every time - had read one shooter (Speedy Gonzales ?) say that he wanted to match his finger print where he touched the trigger - the ONLY contact he made with that rifle upon firing. These are the guys shooting "two's" and "teens" (.2xx", .1xx") 5 and 10 shot groups at 100 yards.

Is about very little to do with "sighting in" a hunting rifle. My experience is that the hunting rifle is firmly gripped with shooting hand and on the forearm, firmly into shoulder, head down fairly secure to comb - when firing at deer. So, I think, that is what you want to reproduce, when you are "sighting in" - grasping it / supporting it, as similar as you can reproduce, when you will be firing at game.

I don't think that "world class" high end shooters use rests at all to "sight in". These are the guys who practice trigger break - dry firing - with a coin balanced on end on their front sight or on scope turret - coin does not fall over when they trip the trigger. With laser pointers, can see they can hold very tight on a target when trigger breaks - like parts of MOA sighting error. They are good enough, they adjust sights to hit what they want, by shooting, as they would for score. Us mortals have to use some kind of rest or support, to calm down the wiggling enough, to be satisfied that our sights or scope is actually aligned where the bullet will go. And, I am quite convinced that the bullet goes to a different place, depending how the rifle is supported.

Do not loose track that the kill zone on a broad side whitetail deer is about 12" or so. A bullet through any part of that results in a dead deer. So if you can put 5 out of 5 shots into 4 inches at 100 yards, you are good for 90% or more of the deer that I have taken or seen taken. From multiple target shooters, I have been assured that if you think you might want to pull off a 400 yard shot, you have to actually shoot targets at 400 yards. What you got on 100 yard targets, may or may not have much to do with your results way down range. My brother tells me that he and his hunting partner - both with 300 Win Mag, 180 grain - well sighted in at 100 yard range off of sandbags and shooting tables - multiple times have missed 600 yard 4 foot x 8 foot plywood from field positions - they simply were not prepared for the windage requirement, way out there, besides the drop.
 
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What's your take on this?
While sighting in a rifle....make it an inline muzzleloader, is it detrimental to strap the gun down into a gun rest?
Or should the gun be allowed to jump off the rest freely?

My take was strapping in helps with load development, but will true muzzle jump end up effecting the scope zeroing process?

Sounds like a basic question, silly maybe, but I want your take on it.

Thanks!

well potash is right on ...i use bags and or a decent adjustable rest ...lots of both...never rest bbl on any thing ..only exception ..bp on cross sticks or bags ONthe null point of bbl......holding front of stock is not productive the less person contact on the gun the better one hand on grip.. one on but to make small elivation changes ......so the gun will jump ..get over it ....the last thing to check for is OUTSIDE FORCES i call it....so if you have the sight picture you want and are on the trigger... STOP ...just relax your trigger hand grip ..totally while you watch your perfect sight sight picture IF your sights or cross hairs move off perfect you have OUTSIDE FORCES ...meaning you are forcing the sights onto the X and this is NO GOOD ...the lock time and other factors will not allow a good shot ....redo your hold untill there is no noticable sight picture movement WEAR HEARING AND A PIECE OF1/2 in ethifoam tucked inside your shirt in the correct spot and sayTHIS IS NOT GOING TO HURT ...you see its a brain thing ...mostly from doing the wrong stuff if you have FLINCH ..self inflickted or by grampa and his 12 ga when you were 10 yrs old you have a problem that will not allow you to even shoot yourself in the leg ...fix this first....i often set up shooters guns on the rest and then trick them into pulling the trigger on an empty chamber to see how far the gun jumps then i say YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID ..FINALLY i always sight in hunting guns about 1.5 inch high at 100 just to compensate somewhat for trigger pull off hand .... tired of learning how to type or spell
 
It is counter productive to sight in and/or develop a load shooting the rifle differently than it’s intended use.
If it’s a rail gun, shoot it on its rails. If it’s an F-Class gun, shoot it on its rest and rear bag. If it’s a hunting gun, shoot it off a pack or bipod. If you’re not going to use a “sled” in the wild, it’s useless to use one at all.
 
Thanks for the help Speers, that's the kind of info I was looking for.


No problem at all, soon as I read “inline muzzleloader” I think I picked up where you were coming from. Fickle things at best but very rewarding when you get them dialed in. Much more of a learning curve then a rifle, I’ve found anyways. Light weight, fairly stout recoil and often 2 piece stocks or flexible plastic stocks can cause all sorts of headaches. I’ve spent many hours,days and months on those head scratching “flyers”.

Echoing what I said above with the sand bags keep them under the action or just slightly ahead of it. Keep a cool barrel sabots don’t like heat, another lesson I learned the hard way is make sure you load your hunting charge in a cold cold barrel. It cost me a very nice buck a couple years ago because I loaded the gun on a cool barrel as in waited 5 minutes after my last shot and loaded it up and let it sit over night, the sabot in the warmish barrel changed/melted enough to greatly change POI. Very similar to in the field if you make a shot and reload right away and collect your trophy and don’t need the load you just loaded in 15 minutes or so in the hot barrel on the sabot will have a drastic effect on POI.


They’re a lot of fun and a lot of frustration but it sure beats bow hunting.
 
Whenever I sit and wait to hunt I make up a pair of shooting sticks about 4 feet and tie together with electrical tape at a spot that can be determined once the rifle is on the shoulder and target area viewed through sights. Not probably useful for mountains but works for swamp donkeys and deer. I usually leave them for the next time
I or someone else comes back.
 
What's your take on this?
While sighting in a rifle....make it an inline muzzleloader, is it detrimental to strap the gun down into a gun rest?
Or should the gun be allowed to jump off the rest freely?

My take was strapping in helps with load development, but will true muzzle jump end up effecting the scope zeroing process?

Sounds like a basic question, silly maybe, but I want your take on it.

Thanks!

FWIW...


 
Accuracy testing, or working up a load, I don't hesitate to lay the fore-end on a sandbag or foam rest and grasp the stock with the firing hand only. Left hand used to squeeze the rear rest/bag to finetune the aim. This holds true for any rifle, whether centerfire, rimfire, muzzleloader, slug shotgun or anything else.

But final sighting-in before hunting? The only thing that fore-end will be touching is my hand, which will be between the gun and whatever rest I am using, be it a tree branch, rock, the side of a trunk, the top of a bipod/tripod, whatever.

I do have a few rifles that I shoot with mounted bipods...but that's the only way they are shot, so that's the way I sight them in.
 
Either move your rifle forward more or remove the front sling stud. On recoil the sling stud will catch the front rest and possibly throw your shot.
 
Stack sandbags tall - both under forearm and under butt - for hard recoiling rifles - want to be sitting with back erect to be able to flex / rock with recoil. I see many folk stretched out over rifle stock on a bench - head too close to scope, not "normal" grip on stock - that position maximizes felt recoil.

darn near impossible with all the baffles installed at Silver. Found I had to pretty much lay down on the bench for my scope to clear the baffle. Time to set up a shooting lane up at my place
 
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