Silly question, had to ask

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slammer1

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I'm looking into shooting cast lead bullets and their advantages for hunting applications (30-30). From what I understand, a decent hard cast bullet is meant to retain its shape and punch right on through the animal. For those of you on Youtube, Hickok 45 shows almost perfect recovered cast bullets that show little if any distortion despite smacking a gong or ploughing into the dirt.

My question is this: doesn't a full metal jacket bullet do much the same? Why is a non-expanding hard cast lead bullet considered ideal for hunting, but a non-expanding full metal jacket considered inhumane? I'm missing something, school me...
 
Fmj is more likly to pass though a hard object like steel plate and keep going. Lead will stop and not punch though
 
FMJ bullets that are pointed.- That point can cause them to act erratically when they hit something. They may go straight through punching a tiny hole, they may tumble, they may penetrate 1" then turn 90* and miss hitting the vitals.

FMJ that are round nose, flat point OR hard cast round nose, flat point.- A round nose or flat point bullet is much more likely to go in a straight line. Flat nose may leave a bigger wound channel than round nose bullets.


In my opinion 30cal "Hard Cast" bullets are to small diameter to be using on game. I would not go with anything hard cast. If you want to shoot 30 cal cast at game look at a alloy that will give some expansion at the impact velocity you are expecting and do not harden them. I would also stick with a flat point to help with expansion and leave wider wound channels if expansion does not occur.
 
I appreciate the replies; thank-you.

I understand the "point" about FMJ zipping through steel ( I witnessed an SKS round pass through a steel I Beam at 75 yards).

It sounds like bullet profile (shape) is a factor and that flat points do their damage by staying on track and carving a wide channel.

I wonder if anyone has ever clipped off the tip of an FMJ to replicate the behavior of a flat nose round.
 
Cast bullets are rarely 'as good' as modern, high-tech, precision-engineered expanding bullets, ("as good" measured in terms of formulae, controlled expansion, etc.)

That truth misses one key thing - Bambi doesn't read ballistics tables. The cast-lead alloy bullet is what the .30-30 was designed with and it has worked just fine for over a century. (As did lead bullets from .38-55, .45-70, .44-40 and so forth, if it matters.)

We can argue the Whys of it like chimps picking each other for fleas, but it's a given fact that a solid cast bullet fired from a .30-30 will punch Bambi's ticket every time if the shooter does his part. (And moose, and black bear, and...)

Oh, the question wasn't silly. Stick around and watch the same discussion go on daily for years.
 
not a good idea to clip the points off fmj bullets--if bullet has an open base it is possible to have a jacket stick in the barrel and shoot the core out leaving a barrel obstruction. Not a very big chance--everything has to line up for it to happen but it can.
fwiw, 44Bore.
 
I have heard good things about the Ranch Dog molds. I would like to use them as the second step in shooting cast- by casting my own.

I was thinking about starting out with some already made ones. I'm closest to Calgary- so I'll see what is available in stores (or mail order if necessary).

Yeah, clipping FMJ's seemed a little unorthodox- not something I would do, but wondered if it was a poor man's soft point.


As for how effective 30-30 cast is, I think I'll start small and conduct my own tests (using chronograph and testing for penetration). Who knows, it may become deer medicine for me.
 
Super hard cast lead bullets are not always the best lead bullets for hunting. Softer alloys will likely give better performance in hunting applications.
 
Hard cast for thicker skinned animals would be my thought. Personally I feel that a softer expanding bullet would be the ticket for deer. Even most of the bigger bones in a deer shouldn't be a problem as long as you have haven't run out of velocity too badly.

Go with a fairly heavy bullet and make sure that your rifle is happy with it. Though that applies to any round used for hunting.
 
slammer1 said:
I appreciate the replies; thank-you.

I understand the "point" about FMJ zipping through steel ( I witnessed an SKS round pass through a steel I Beam at 75 yards).

It sounds like bullet profile (shape) is a factor and that flat points do their damage by staying on track and carving a wide channel.

I wonder if anyone has ever clipped off the tip of an FMJ to replicate the behavior of a flat nose round.
Click to expand...

In africa they sometimes pulled the bullets from 303s then reseated them backwards giving them a flat point solid.
 
I use my Marlin 336 in 35 Rem quite a bit for paper punching and hunting as well. Heavy for cal flat point "hard cast bullets" are the way to go for hunting. IMHO they need to be gas checked and not to hard as to being to brittle. The best hardness for rifle bullet is in 15B to 18B neibourhood hard enough to take the rifling, be pushed up to 2200FPS or so and still soft enough to stay in one piece after impact. Lead alloy with those properties needs to have about 5% antimony and 3%-4% Tin and that is what works for me.
 
like some have said hard cast is not best in a .30 cal package but you do want a flat point (if its a lever gun your going to need a flat point)

you would have to get into advanced casting i do up hunting bullets for my .303 the whole nose is cast in pure lead and the base is cast in wheel weights these get water droped(only time WW alloy will stay together is water droping them) only the WW alloy gets hardened and the nose stays soft and ductile (pure lead likes to stay together) ammosmith on youtube has a 2 part vid about it.

now in a biger cal like a .45-70 or a .44 mag a hard cast with a wide meplat will pounch a nasty hole in game and leave it there like a hole punch on paper
 
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