Since we are discussing efficiency these days, the reasonable 300 Magnums.

rkm456 said:
You're a wise man Ted.

My lightweight 300 WBY magnum was the first time I realized just how much rifle fit matters. The gun weighs almost 3 pounds less than the .308 I had and the felt recoil to me was minimal.
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Efficiency can be found in many forms. This is my last 300 H&H, an FN Sporter in a heavy walnut stock. It carries an old fixed 4X Leupold in plain vanilla Weaver mounts, and a two-leaf factory rear sight for the irons.

q1DuZ2gl.jpg


The rifle weighs close to nine pounds, IIRC, and will put a magazine full into five inches at 300 meters, which is my benchmark for acceptable hunting accuracy. That's 328 yards, and it has been a long time since I shot any big game farther away than that.

The 'efficiency' aspect of the 300 magnums comes in not worrying about trajectory at all. Just hold dead on any animal out to 300, and remember to squeeeeeeeze the trigger.

This "little" sweetheart just went to a new home on the prairies. She weighs half a pound less than the FN, and was my beater 300 H&H. Not much to look at, but will do everything the FN can.

8nDLwX1l.jpg


The efficiency in this one was, and still is according to the new owner, that you don't have to worry about beating it up. It is already there, but still performs.

Both rifles have classic style stocks, and as far as recoil-related efficiency are not at all hard to handle.

Ted
 
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Why not? said:
Here's one reference:

Handloader Magazine, Volume 37, No 6.

"It always seemed to me that a 180-grain bullet at 3,000 fps was the real strength of any of the smaller .300 magnums, so the first load used the 180-grain Nosler Partition. I’d fooled around with a custom .300 H&H from D’Arcy Echols before, so knew enough to avoid the 4350s with 180-grain bullets. Best of show turned out to be (surprise!) Alliant Reloder 22, with 71 grains averaging about 3,050 fps and about .7 inch for three shots at 100 yards. Other than that, all the usual suspects worked acceptably with 180-grain bullets, especially Hodgdon H-4831, Norma 204 and RL-19."

IIRC, in other articles the concern was accuracy, not velocity.

Ted
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Thanks Ted. I'm surprised at that. 4350 has been good to me in both velocity and accuracy but I've only had two different H & H chambered rifles so it's a small sample size.
 
Why not? said:
Here's one reference:

Handloader Magazine, Volume 37, No 6.

"It always seemed to me that a 180-grain bullet at 3,000 fps was the real strength of any of the smaller .300 magnums, so the first load used the 180-grain Nosler Partition. I’d fooled around with a custom .300 H&H from D’Arcy Echols before, so knew enough to avoid the 4350s with 180-grain bullets. Best of show turned out to be (surprise!) Alliant Reloder 22, with 71 grains averaging about 3,050 fps and about .7 inch for three shots at 100 yards. Other than that, all the usual suspects worked acceptably with 180-grain bullets, especially Hodgdon H-4831, Norma 204 and RL-19."

IIRC, in other articles the concern was accuracy, not velocity.

Ted
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E-mail on the way as we speak, showing some of my results using 4350 in my 308NM. However, the bullets used were the Sierra 200gr BT.
 
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MattW said:
Thanks Ted. I'm surprised at that. 4350 has been good to me in both velocity and accuracy but I've only had two different H & H chambered rifles so it's a small sample size.
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Every rifle is different, of course, and we have seen some that perform far above, and some below expectations. I well-remember one of our most accomplished sillouhette shooters at the club who was at the range one day when myself and a friend showed up with my Oehler. The guy was checking the sight-in on his hunting rifle, a very accurate 7mm Rem Mag that he had used for many years, and had killed literally dozens of moose, caribou, sheep, and a couple of bears.

He brought it over just as Garry had finished shooting his 7X57 Ackley. His loads were 160 Partitions and going over the Oehler at around 2700 or so. That just happened to be the same bullet the other guy had used for years in his 7 Mag, so wanted to check it. You can imagine the look on everyone's face when the first shot registered something like 100 fps less. Can't remember the exact speed, but it was considerably slower. He fired two more, and they were about the same.

It goes the other way sometimes, too, of course. Enjoy your H&H with 4350. It is still one of the reasonable 300 Magnums.

What velocity do you get with that powder?

Ted
 
Why not? said:
Every rifle is different, of course, and we have seen some that perform far above, and some below expectations. I well-remember one of our most accomplished sillouhette shooters at the club who was at the range one day when myself and a friend showed up with my Oehler. The guy was checking the sight-in on his hunting rifle, a very accurate 7mm Rem Mag that he had used for many years, and had killed literally dozens of moose, caribou, sheep, and a couple of bears.

He brought it over just as Garry had finished shooting his 7X57 Ackley. His loads were 160 Partitions and going over the Oehler at around 2700 or so. That just happened to be the same bullet the other guy had used for years in his 7 Mag, so wanted to check it. You can imagine the look on everyone's face when the first shot registered something like 100 fps less. Can't remember the exact speed, but it was considerably slower. He fired two more, and they were about the same.

It goes the other way sometimes, too, of course. Enjoy your H&H with 4350. It is still one of the reasonable 300 Magnums.

What velocity do you get with that powder?

Ted
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I get 3050 fps with 180 gr Partitions. Got that with both rifles, both have/had 26 in barrels.
I too have had rifles with slow barrels, the most disappointing was a 25-06, it was slow but accurate.
 
MattW said:
I get 3050 fps with 180 gr Partitions. Got that with both rifles, both have/had 26 in barrels.
I too have had rifles with slow barrels, the most disappointing was a 25-06, it was slow but accurate.
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Which 4350 is that? My loads with Accurate 4350 clock at about 2950 with a 180 Interbond. FN Supreme with a 24 inch barrel.
 
It is no secret that I have always favored the 308 Norma Magnum.

That is not to suggest it is some magical round, just that I feel it is
a very good balance between capacity, neck length and overall length.
Most 24" 308NM rifles will reach that 3050/180 with ease, some will do a
bit better. 26" rifles will "usually" produce 3100 and pennies safely.

Loaded with a good bullet [my choices: Partitions, Accubonds, Sciroccos]
in the 180-200 grain weights allows this round to shine..

One of my 26" 308NMs drives the 200 to just over 3000 and shoots sub-moa
with the 200AB or Partition. Norma MRP or Reloder 22/26 or IMR 7828 are
the tickets for this.

Having shot a heap of game with the Norma Mag, starting in 1967, I have
decided it is a moderately big "30" that I can depend on to get the job done,
even when the presentation is less than ideal. Dave.
 
I think the 308 Norma is, and always has been, the best of the belted 30's. The 30-338, though very slightly smaller, is also very good. I have always loaded either 4350 or 4831 behind 180's and both powders produce about 3060 fps. The 30 Newton performs exactly the same which is to be expected dince the case capacity is exactly the same.
 
guntech said:
Accuracy was exceptional with the .308 Norma "back in the day"... 1968-69 for me...
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I agree, Dennis. And....the original factory loading was quite warm, clocking 3140 in my first 308NM. Dave.

The Norma remains an excellent, accurate chambering.
Below is a sample group from my latest 308NM, using the 200
Partition at just north of 3000 FPS.
YHQx8XI.jpg
 
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Eagleye said:
I agree, Dennis. And....the original factory loading was quite warm, clocking 3140 in my first 308NM. Dave.
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I shot a couple of boxes of those many, many, years ago. The brass was still good for reloading, even after that torture test. Today I use more resized 338 Win Mag brass picked up at the range than anything else.

Another efficiency factor, free brass! :)

Ted
 
Eagleye said:
I agree, Dennis. And....the original factory loading was quite warm, clocking 3140 in my first 308NM. Dave.

The Norma remains an excellent, accurate chambering.
Below is a sample group from my latest 308NM, using the 200
Partition at just north of 3000 FPS.
YHQx8XI.jpg
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Nice Dave, ;) VERY nice. My best and similar results, in my Schultz & Larsen 65DL, has been with the 200gr Sierra SBT, using IMR 4350. By the way, what are you shooting for a 308NM?
 
I recently acquired a 300 ruger compact magnum from a fellow member here. I took it to the range and must say I found it quite enjoyable to shoot, even with its 20" barrel. It feeds nicely as well. As long as you don't get hung up on comparing it to a 300 win mag I think it's a good round. It's like a 30-06 improved in a short action and everyone always says the ol'30-06 is good for any game here in NA!
 
Boomer said:
The key to mastering recoil is wanting to. If you don't want to, you'll never be able to. I got beat up pretty good shooting a 7.62X54R Mosin Nagant carbine with that wicked curved butt plate, and concluded that big rifles were beyond me. Then I had an epiphany of sorts after reading Ross Seyfried's article on the .416 Rigby, and knew that life would not be complete until I owned one and could shoot it well. I managed to scrape enough together for dies, brass ($200/50) and bullets, powder and primers I already had on hand, and got a shiny new .416 Rigby Ruger #1. On my first attempt I lit up 102 grs of 4350 under a 350 gr X bullet, and never looked back. Before long I was shooting it prone. The only recoil induced problems I faced was the bedding of the butt stock was uneven causing it to split, and getting custom quarter rib made so I could mount the 1.5-5X Leupold so the ocular was even with the forward face of the falling block, thus it neither interfered with loading/unloading, and there was no chance of getting tagged with the scope.

From that point on I've owned .458s and .375 Ultras, and truly enjoy shooting them all. In Africa I hunted with a .500 Nitro, and when visiting Whitehorse I burned up an embarrassing amount of C-FBMI's .470 ammo in his double. Okay, the part about truly enjoying them all is a lie. When I first mounted the 1-4 Nightforce on the .458, I liked the mount very much and didn't want to change it, even though the ocular of the long eyepiece was well behind the cocking piece, and sure enough, I got careless and got tagged. You haven't lived until you've got a scope cut from a hot loaded .458. Even now when I pick up that rifle I have a moment of discomfort, but it goes away after a couple of shots are fired, and when that muzzle rises up 30 degrees I get that big smile on my face.

As a result of that little mishap, I came up with a few personal rules for shooting heavy kickers, the first being and most important being never allowing the rifle to hurt you. Don't fire a hard kicking rifle with the pocket of your shoulder open ( high elbow position) pull your elbow down and put a layer of muscle between the rifle butt and the shoulder pocket. Its amazing how many people a scared to shoot their big rifles from anything but offhand, but them assume an olympic off hand position. Square up to the target a bit more and keep you elbow closer to your body. Do not shoot too many rounds at a time, if 3 is enough don't shoot 5, particularly from supported field positions or from the bench, and if 3 are too many shoot 2 and if 2 are too many, reduce the load.

Pay attention to how the rifle is set up. Don't put yourself in a position where the scope can hit you. If you are like me and prefer your rifles to have short LOPs, be sure the scope is mounted well forward. On my first .375 Ultra, I used a scout scope, things would have gone very wrong if I got tagged with that. On my Ruger #1, the custom quarter rib had the scope far enough forward I'd never be hit, but it limited the magnification of the glass to 3X, any higher and the image donutted. This didn't prevent me from taking advantage of the rifle's flat trajectory and do some very credible shooting out to a quarter mile on realistic sized targets. I move the forward sling swivel to the radius of the forend to prevent recoil induced cuts to the forefinger of my support hand. Another adaptation I made was to have a knuckle deflector installed behind the trigger guard of my Brno 602. Due to the way the pistol grip of the McMillan Express stock crowded the trigger guard, each time the rifle fired, the knuckle of my middle finger got a painful wrap from the trigger guard. A little piece of contoured nylon screwed to the rear of the trigger guard resolved the problem neatly and inexpensively. If the recoil pad doesn't cushion the rifle butt in recoil, replace it. If the LOP is too long, felt recoil will be more intense, so shorten the stock. The best way to reduce the recoil experience though is with good hearing protection. If you find the report painful, you will never shoot that rifle well, and you will probably blame it on recoil.

Other rules pertain to the welfare of the rifle, such as examining the bedding to ensure the stock will not fail. You might have to add a second recoil lug along the barrel. The stock, particularly if wood, will benefit from being cross-bolted, but in a synthetic stock it acts like rebar in concrete and strengthens the structure of the material. If the rifle doesn't feed reliably, that problem must be addressed, either by changing the style of bullet you use, the seating depth of the bullet, of sending the rifle out to have the problem addressed by a gunsmith. Hard kicking rifles are no place for a poor trigger. If you have a long tedious pull before the trigger breaks, chances are when the rifle finally fires, it will be loose in you your shoulder. If the trigger is too light, the rifle will fire before you're ready for it to fire, and you won't enjoy that. Of course all this pertains to big rifles, not little .300 magnums.
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I just read this post twice it was so full of excellent information. Thank you for taking the time to write it out.
 
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