Six WWII U.S. guns.

drm3m

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These guns have been previously individually posted in different threads so I decided to consolidate them together.

David

-1942 barrel dated M1A1 carbine.
-1942 manufactured M1928A1 Thompson smg.
-1942 manufactured M1911A1 Colt pistol rig.
-1943 M1 Springfield rifle.
-1943 manufactured Winchester M97 Trench Gun.
-1943 M1 Inland carbine with Bavarian post war markings.

M1A1 carbine.

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“P” proof mark in a circle on the rear of the stock above the pistol grip by the recoil plate.
CirclePproofmarkontherearofthestockmarking.jpg


On the underside of the pistol grip there is a stamped faint Ordnance ”crossed cannons” escutcheon with what looks like an “O” as in “IO” for Overton /Inland.

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M1928A1 Thompson smg.(Manufactured by Savage approx. February 1942)

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Ordnance Department’s ‘Flaming Bomb’ acceptance stamp, “RLB” (Col. Roy L. Bowlin was the A.I.O. Ordnance inspector, once the inspectors stamp was stamped on a gun, it became government property),
“GEG” in a circle ( GEG is for George E. Goll, the AO civilian inspector and former driver for General John T. Thompson)

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M1911A1 Colt pistol rig.
Sn. 785826 Manufactured in 1942, the gun was shipped by Colt to the Springfield Armory on June 25 1942

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Inspectors stamp W.B. (Waldemar Broberg Col. US Army)

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M1 Springfield manufactured rifle.

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Questions and answers with Bruce Canfield regarding this M1 rifle.

-serial number 1,722,349 fits into the period of (EMcF) Earl McFarland. (Yes)
-The receiver was made in July 1943. (Correct)
-The barrel 1 SA 12-43 would be a bit late.
(A bit late to be original to the receiver.)
1SA12-43barrelnumber.jpg


-The revision bolt is too early….D28287 over C13. What would the date be for this bolt?

(The revision number is -2...in use circa early 1940 to early 1941.)
BoltDrawingnumberD28287-2SAoverC13.jpg
-

If this gun was rebuilt after the war, what are the chances it would have been given a 12-43 barrel….having a July 43 receiver five months apart or is that luck of the draw ?
( Likewise, early and later serviceable parts were used.)

-Why no rebuild stamp on the stock?
(Many rebuilds did not have overhaul markings on the stocks. Also, damaged stocks (with markings) were often replaced by unmarked replacement stocks.)

-What about the varying stock color?
(The color of the wood (stock and handguards) is of no significance.)


-How do these factors affect a collector’s view of a gun like this?

( Original non-rebuilt rifles are very uncommon and will typically bring much higher prices to collectors than rebuilds.)

(“That's no big deal, however, as the vast majority of M1 rifles were subsequently rebuilt after WWII and were fitted with parts of varying vintages”.)

--------------------------


Winchester M97 Trench Gun.

WinchesterM97TrenchGunmanufactured1943.jpg


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WinchestermarkingsandOrdnanceFlamingBombonSn955352.jpg


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M1 Inland carbine with Bavarian post war markings. (Sn. 4882099 )
(Probably 'Bavaria Rural Police')
'2099' marking on bolt top and other components.....part of the German (Bavarian) chapter.

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12-43InlandM1carbineOrdnancecrossedcannonsstockmarking-1.jpg


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Not sure why you think the carbine is Bavarian? Most of the M1 carbines used by the Bavarian police had the rear peep sight removed and v-notch sight installed.
 
jody v,

You might want to check out Jim Mock's website.
The gun above is shown there.

http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/

Specifically here.

http://www.bavarianm1carbines.com/armory.html#rural

Bavaria (Agency name removed)
Fourth gun-Inland.

David

This is the principal source of information concerning these Bavarian carbines.

Here is another Bavarian carbine that I own that shows the Bavaria Rural Police marking.
Inland barrel dated 7-43....Sn. 769,723.
It is a real mixmaster of different parts...Rockola stock etc.

RightcartiucheM1Carbines020.jpg


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It also retains the original U.S. rear flip sight.

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The markings on the trigger guard are WB-LP-2265 (Württemberg Landes Polizei) Wuerttemberg's version of Bavaria's Rural Police. This marking dates the carbine as given to the Germans of Wuerttemberg between the end of the war and prior to 1952, likely prior to 1948 and one of the first carbines given.
An M1 carbine transferred by Bavaria to Württemberg.
This gun started off with Bavaria Rural Police markings on the receiver rail and ended up with WB-LP 2265 Württemberg markings on the trigger guard.

TriggerguardmarkingsM1Carbine-1.jpg


The map below shows the relationship between Bavaria and Wurttemberg....in the American occupied zone where the M1 carbines were distributed.

A little history.
This map shows how Germany was carved up after the end of the War.

occzones.gif


For they that collect M1 vintage ammunition.

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Thanks Mike.

I feel privileged to own this American Vet's rig that I got from his family.

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The Vet that brought back the rig.

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This is where the Vet spent the war delivering aircraft with RAF Ferry Command.

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Tobin-LiberatoraircraftIthink.jpg


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These three magazines were loaded when I bought this pistol...a bit scary.

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I think that the Vet would have been shocked to know that his gun was loaded years later where his Grandsons were running around.

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David

When I bought this gun it was not registered.
Due to an amnesty at the time the registration was not a problem..it went very smoothly.

This is when these guns become available.
The family were not gun people....and having this gun in their house was a problem.
 
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Interesting website on the Bavarian Carbines. I've read War Baby (both volumes) cover to cover and they do get nearly extensive about as does this site but it does mention that the Germans like to stencil the last four digits of the original serial number onto many of the other parts like your's shows.

It's always neat to learn something new about M1 carbines and I have to say that today I did. Thanks for the links............and that is a very nice collection you have.
 
jody_ v,

I had the good fortune to connect with Jim Mock back when I got my Bavarian carbines.
He was in the early process of setting up his website at that time.
He is a great researcher....ex LA cop....so he knows where to find his material.

His website is awesome ‘in my opinion’ on this subject.
Jim will add a chapter on Bavarian carbines in Ruth's new book.
He is straight as an arrow...and says it like it is.

He also worked with the CMP as a consultant in trying to demystify the carbines they received from elsewhere for resale.

He is probably the most knowledgeable fellow on the subject of post war Bavarian/Austrian U.S. M1 carbines.

David
 
sir your m1 garand was build around July-43 as you know. barrel being dated 12-43 is late. my guess is that someone used early parts on this rifle. whats your op rod, trigger housing, hammer and safeties number? your bolt came out around Dec40-Jan41
Springfield July-43 1,710,013 1,786,469 July-43
Your rear sight is a Type 2 Lockbar
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Bolt D28287-2SA june 1940 to mar 1942

Serial # 270,000-550,000


C13

can you post more pictures?

Heres the numbers your looking for

[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Op Rod D35382 6 SA curved
Used from about s/n 900,000 to about 2,200,000.
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Bullet Guide Milled

These were used from s/n 250,000 to 2,900,000.
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Follower Assembly Late marked 11

Used from s/n 700,000 to 2,100,000.
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Follower Arm No Bevel

Used from s/n 200,000 to end of WWII.
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Rear Sight Long Pinion Rounded Lock Bar

Knurled Windage/ Knurled Elevation
Used from about s/n 1,009,000 to 2,700,000.
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[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Trigger Housings[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] D28290-12-SA
Used from s/n 1,020,000 to 3,200,000.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Hammer C46008-5 SA
Used from s/n 1,500,000 to 3,000,000.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]SA Trigger Type 2[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Used from s/n 90,000 to 3,900,000.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Safety C46025-9SA
Used from s/n 700,000 to 1,800,000.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Follower Rod Short Fork riveted
Used from 80,000 to 3,100,000.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Op Rod Catch Late
Used from 215,000 to end of WWII

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Bolt D29287-12SA
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]S-06<> Aug 1943
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Used from s/n 600,000 to 3,300,000.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]SA/EmcF with Large Ordnance Wheel
no 3/16" Ordnance Escutcheon on grip.
These have the straight clip latch cutout.
Used from s/n 700,000 to 1,800,000.
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Thanks for the info daigle2008.

Bruce Canfield has been very helpful to me regarding the M1A1 carbine and
Winchester M97 Trench Gun...and has made certain helpful comments regarding the M1 rifle.

As I would not make the effort to correct certain (vintage-1943) incorrect parts on the M1 rifle....I am happy to leave it the way it is.

It is what it is ....and I accept that.
I am not more curious than that.

David
 
Thanks for the info daigle2008.

Bruce Canfield has been very helpful to me regarding the M1A1 carbine and
Winchester M97 Trench Gun...and has made certain helpful comments regarding the M1 rifle.

As I would not make the effort to correct certain (vintage-1943) incorrect parts on the M1 rifle....I am happy to leave it the way it is.

It is what it is ....and I accept that.
I am not more curious than that.

David
yup i know that, just wanted to let you know what numbers you should be looking for on your garand. i didnt tell you to restore them.:)
 
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