Sizing issues....

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636andy636

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Looking for some input. Have a used h&4 Handi rifle with low round count, it will not close on any brass but new or brass that has been fired in the rifle and FL sized (only have FL die). Tried sizing some range brass and it won't chamber even after being FL sized.

Put some ink on one case and closed the barrel and the ink gets rubbed off .368 inch above the case head.

Anyone know what's up?

Die was set up as per Lee and using Redding wax for lube.
 
Thanks! I'll order one shortly. Would shortening my shell holder have any effect? Since it would push the case deeper into the die?
 
sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't, depends on the dimensions of the die and the dimensions of the brass. The brass will spring back a bit after you size it, so if the die is still a bit to big it won't cure the issue.
Are you sure it is a full length sizing die and not a neck die of some variety??
 
Sounds like you need to bump the shoulders back a hair. Put a case in the press. Run the ram all the way up. Look and see if you can see any daylight between the bottom of the die and shell plate. If you can, lower the ram and turn the die 1/8 or 1/4 turn and repeat until you can't see daylight. If it is bottoming out on the shell plate already, you can lay a piece of 400 grit sandpaper on a flat surface and knock off a 1/1000" or so and retry.
 
Brass can spring back after being resized, take one of your snug fitting cases and resize again before modifying the shell holder. Make sure the press cams over and the die is making hard firm contact with the shell holder. When you get to the top of the ram stroke and the press cams over, pause for three to five seconds. Pausing will help keep the brass from springing back and it should be slightly smaller.

The range brass you picked up may have been fired in a larger diameter chamber and when you resize these cases they will try and spring back to their larger size. Just play with the die adjustments before modifying anything and make sure the case isn't too long from the shoulder to the base.

As a side note I have five different .223/5.56 dies and each one will size the base of the case to a different diameter, this is because we live in a plus and minus manufacturing world. Meaning you could buy a RCBS die and not have the problem you are having now.

Study the diagram below and remember it is possible when full length resizing to make the case "LONGER" than its fired length. If your cases are too long and your die is making hard contact with the shell holder then you can lap the top of the shell holder to make the case go further into the die. Also below shows the pressure ring around the base base of the case, is your die getting rid of the pressure ring? If not then you may have a defective die that has too large of a base diameter to size your cases properly. Bottom line, are your cases too long for the chamber or are they too fat for the chamber.

shouldersetback_zps59bf1b04.jpg
 
You could either grind the top of the shell holder a bit or the bottom of the sizing die (like I just did today)
Either would work
Sometimes the dies are out of spec and it's not worth sending them back for a fix.
 
636andy636 said:
Looking for some input. Have a used h&4 Handi rifle with low round count, it will not close on any brass but new or brass that has been fired in the rifle and FL sized (only have FL die). Tried sizing some range brass and it won't chamber even after being FL sized.

Put some ink on one case and closed the barrel and the ink gets rubbed off .368 inch above the case head.

Anyone know what's up?

Die was set up as per Lee and using Redding wax for lube.
Click to expand...


I don't think bumping the shoulder back is going to help. He has inked a case and the ink is being rubbed off .368" above the case head. That is where it is tight. I would have to agree with Yodave, get yourself a small base die for resizing those range pick-ups. I wouldn't start grinding on your dies either. I've seen it done and 9 times out of 10 the person regretted it and ended up buying a new die to replace the one they screwed up. But it is your die........
 
Have you READ the instruction's in setting up the dies? I've missed a small detail and have had problem's like that in the past.
 
rokoro said:
I don't think bumping the shoulder back is going to help. He has inked a case and the ink is being rubbed off .368" above the case head. That is where it is tight. I would have to agree with Yodave, get yourself a small base die for resizing those range pick-ups. I wouldn't start grinding on your dies either. I've seen it done and 9 times out of 10 the person regretted it and ended up buying a new die to replace the one they screwed up. But it is your die........
Click to expand...
Sounds like I'm going to try a few things before I modify the shell holder (cheaper to replace than a duew) then if all else fails I'll pick up a small base die.
 
What caliber are you loading? SB dies aren't available in all calibers.

What you're experiencing is common. There is a variation in chambers, dies, brass hardness and so on. Small chamber + big die + brass fired in bigger chamber = cartridges that don't fit. You've got to careful with cutting dies and shell-holders. Trimming them back will reduce your case base diameter, but will also increase head-space on rimless cases. Rimmed won't be affected.

The solution to your problem could be just a different die, but without a small base option its just blind luck. I size .300 Wins for a friend so he can use the cases of another friend who shoots factory in his autoloader. Once they get the extra squeeze he's good to go forever in his rifle. Do you have a friend that loads the same caliber? His die could be a few thou tighter and that will fix you up.

Years ago it was commonly understood that to handload without trouble a shooter should use his own brass, in a bolt-gun and use only once fired in his own gun full length sized or new cases for hunting loads if he wanted to avoid all trouble. That seems to be largely forgotten now, along with the advice to shoot starting loads in auto, pump and lever guns. You can load for anything, but sometimes the system needs a little tweaking.
 
636andy636 said:
Sounds like I'm going to try a few things before I modify the shell holder (cheaper to replace than a duew) then if all else fails I'll pick up a small base die.
Click to expand...

There's another option before you grind anything.
Some shell holders are sloppy enough that you can insert a shim under the case lifting it a bit.
See if this helps. If it does, then grinding is in order.
 
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