SKS accuracy

My calipers say the bottom 4 shot group is a 3" group, measured from 2 furthest bullet holes. :)

Standard size plates are 9-10" hmmmm :)

Wonder how many deer have been killed with rifles that group 3" for 4 shots at 100 yards ? Quite a few, I would guess.

Are the criteria you apply here the same as you apply to the 375 ruger?.... if so, they both speak for themselves.....

I think every hunter needs a good accurate rifle as a base and should build on that....
 
Completely agree.
Super people can shoot really well on the internet but the average guy wouldn't do any better than that with an open sighted lever action 30-30, either. If one says that an open sighted SKS is unsuitable for deer then it follows that an iron sighted lever action 30-30 is unsuitable as well. And that's just hilarious.
 
Completely agree, others are sounding rather crazy in my book.
...What is relevant is that the bullet hit the kill zone of a deer, and since the kill zone of a deer is 3x the size of any of those groups, once again, you have a dead deer.
...

Every year, hunters have gone out and killed deer with rifles that have the same or less accuracy than what is shown. Traditional rifles like 30-30's or the very common beat to heck 303 SMLE.

...Animals are big and you don't need to be a sub MOA shooter with a sub MOA rifle to kill an animal.

People are hung up on group size these days. People think that anything more than a 1.5 " group at 100 yards = no good for hunting! Group size is fun enough I guess but to kill a deer at 100 yards you don't need a good group from a bench, you need 1 shot to a large target.
 
What if your rifle is only capable of hitting within a 4" circle, but your hearts pumping, hands are trembling fully gripped by buck fever and your off by 4 inches? What if that first shot is you flier? Now your 8 inches high, low, right left and you've got a gut shot deer running a couple kms into the bush? There's no doubt that would hit a deer, but do you really shoot at an animal and just hope to hit it? Myself I wouldn't feel comfortsble making a clean kill with a rifle that only shoots 4 " @ 100. Too many factors involved to have to worry about bad accuracy. Are you set up to reload?
 
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I think I know her... where did the pic come from?

Oh and.... S blah K blah S blah... mil blah surp blah... deer blah... blah... blah...
 
I've got a muzzleloader that only puts 3 shots into a 3" group at 100 yards. Never failed to get any deer I've ever shot at with it. And I've shot quite a few deer
The point is The round 7.62x39 if constructed properly (hunting ammo)is enough for deer. 3" groups are ugly but within the limits of real world hunting up to 100 yards on deer. Same goes the 30/30. The mosin. Even the 303 lee Enfield or any other open sighted rifle
 
Without a bench rest I can hit a 12x12 gong fairly well at 100 yards. I think a 125gr soft point is a bit on the light side for deer at further distances, but you don't need to shoot a 2 inch group to put one through the boiler maker.

The boiler room on a deer is 10" ..... If you can hit a 12 x 12 gong "fairly well" with a rifle you shouldn't be hunting with it.....
 
What if your rifle is only capable of hitting within a 4" circle, but your hearts pumping, hands are trembling fully gripped by buck fever and your off by 4 inches? What if that first shot is you flier? Now your 8 inches high, low, right left and you've got a gut shot deer running a couple kms into the bush? There's no doubt that would hit a deer, but do you really shoot at an animal and just hope to hit it? Myself I wouldn't feel comfortsble making a clean kill with a rifle that only shoots 4 " @ 100. Too many factors involved to have to worry about bad accuracy. Are you set up to reload?

I have a bit of a problem with your conjecture that a 4" rifle is unsuitable for big game hunting, or that poor shooting is somehow mitigated with a more accurate rifle. If you can't shoot up to the accuracy potential of a 4" rifle, going afield with a MOA rifle has no advantage, you still won't be able to shoot within 4 minutes. But lets stop and think about what a 4 minute group, or 4" at 100 yards actually means. If your rifle is sighted so the center of your group coincides with your point of aim, no bullet strike will extend more than 2" from your point of aim. A tolerance of 2" on the center of a 12" target is meaningless.

The problem with the SKS is not the mechanical accuracy of the rifle, the problem is the hunter's ability to shoot up to that potential. Why? Because a very small stock, a short sighting plane, and a difficult trigger combine to make good marksmanship very challenging; mechanical accuracy and marksmanship are two different things. A light quick handling rifle, that fits the shooter, has a "glass rod" trigger and is equipped with a low power scope or a ghost ring and post iron sights, but will seldom puts 5 inside 4" at 100 is by contrast an excellent hunting rifle. A talented field marksman who can shoot up to his rifle, when shooting under good conditions, will never have a bullet land more than 2" from his point of aim. But all this is just a matter of probability.

If you put up a 100 yard target, and over sufficient time to prevent the barrel from over heating, you fired 20 shots, you would end up with a group that took on some interesting characteristics. The first thing that will catch your attention, is that no shot extends more than 2" from your point of aim, provided that your rifle is a true 4 minute rifle, and provided that you indeed are shooting up to it. The next thing you should notice is that the center is shot out of the target, and the group has not formed up in a ring 2" out from the point of aim. Rather some 80% of the rounds have impacted within 1" of center, thus the error potential is not 2", its more like half an inch. Thus we see that there is no reason why the cold bore shot out of a 4 minute rifle won't hit the point of aim 80% of the time. Any deviation from that is then a matter of of marksmanship.

We hunt in the real world. The climate in most parts of Canada from the end of August until late December can be challenging. Wind can buffet the hunter making a solid hold from unsupported positions impossible, and from high supported positions difficult. Fog, rain, sleet, and snow reduce visibility, and obscures the target. Cold temperatures numb fingers and rob the hunter of his feel for trigger contact and control. Heavy warm clothing screws up the rifle's fit, and the muscle memory developed throughout the long warm summer no longer works. This combined with the open ended timing when sighting on a live target, which requires the hunter to shoot before something changes, increases his sense of excitement, and decreases is marksmanship prowess. With all this in mind, the average hunter might as well be shooting a smooth bore slug gun as a match rifle, yet despite all that, somehow freezers get filled, and heads adorn walls.
 
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I have a bit of a problem with your conjecture that a 4" rifle is unsuitable for big game hunting, or that poor shooting is somehow mitigated with a more accurate rifle. If you can't shoot up to the accuracy potential of a 4" rifle, going afield with a MOA rifle has no advantage, you still won't be able to shoot within 4 minutes. But lets stop and think about what a 4 minute group, or 4" at 100 yards actually means. If your rifle is sighted so the center of your group coincides with your point of aim, no bullet strike will extend more than 2" from your point of aim. A tolerance of 2" on the center of a 12" target is meaningless.

The problem with the SKS is not the mechanical accuracy of the rifle, the problem is the hunter's ability to shoot up to that potential. Why? Because a very small stock, a short sighting plane, and a difficult trigger combine to make good marksmanship very challenging; mechanical accuracy and marksmanship are two different things. A light quick handling rifle, that fits the shooter, has a "glass rod" trigger and is equipped with a low power scope or a ghost ring and post iron sights, but will seldom puts 5 inside 4" at 100 is by contrast an excellent hunting rifle. A talented field marksman who can shoot up to his rifle, when shooting under good conditions, will never have a bullet land more than 2" from his point of aim. But all this is just a matter of probability.

If you put up a 100 yard target, and over sufficient time to prevent the barrel from over heating, you fired 20 shots, you would end up with a group that took on some interesting characteristics. The first thing that will catch your attention, is that no shot extends more than 2" from your point of aim, provided that your rifle is a true 4 minute rifle, and provided that you indeed are shooting up to it. The next thing you should notice is that the center is shot out of the target, and the group has not formed up in a ring 2" out from the point of aim. Rather some 80% of the rounds have impacted within 1" of center, thus the error potential is not 2", its more like half an inch. Thus we see that there is no reason why the cold bore shot out of a 4 minute rifle won't hit the point of aim 80% of the time. Any deviation from that is then a matter of of marksmanship.

We hunt in the real world. The climate in most parts of Canada from the end of August until late December can be challenging. Wind can buffet the hunter making a solid hold from unsupported positions impossible, and from high supported positions difficult. Fog, rain, sleet, and snow reduce visibility, and obscures the target. Cold temperatures numb fingers and rob the hunter of his feel for trigger contact and control. Heavy warm clothing screws up the rifle's fit, and the muscle memory developed throughout the long warm summer no longer works. This combined with the open ended timing when sighting on a live target, which requires the hunter to shoot before something changes, increases his sense of excitement, and decreases is marksmanship prowess. With all this in mind, the average hunter might as well be shooting a smooth bore slug gun as a match rifle, yet despite all that, somehow freezers get filled, and heads adorn walls.

All true, and well said.

But the SKS still sucks.

Furthermore, while an accurate rifle is no substitute for marksmanship, I feel that every hunter should strive to do their best. A part of that is choosing a rifle that is both inherently accurate and that the hunter can "shoot up to".

For me, that means a rifle that can shoot a 3-shot .75" at 200m.

Hunting shouldn't be a race to the bottom. The welfare of the animal should always come first.

I wonder how many "4inch-group @ 100m SKS hunters" would hesitate to try to shoot that huge 4-pointer that is out at 200 or 250m... I hope they all would, but we all know that's not the case.
 
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Why has this thread slipped into degradation like that "SKS for Hunting" thread that got locked recently? Sad that it always has to be reduced to a pissing contest cloaked in a battle of pride and wits.
 
Why has this thread slipped into degradation like that "SKS for Hunting" thread that got locked recently? Sad that it always has to be reduced to a pissing contest cloaked in a battle of pride and wits.

I didn't see or participate in the other thread, but I apologize if my opinion is unwelcome here. I'm apparently mistaken that this is an opinion forum. This thread is in the "Hunting" section, as well...
 
Another way to think about it is in a military context. Quite appropriate considering what the SKS was built for.

Correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge the SKS was not used as a sniper rifle at any time. Even when the SKSs took the place of the Mosin Nagants on the battlefield, the snipers continued to use the 91/30s.

Close-combat running and gunning -- injuring enemy soldiers... that's what the SKS does well.

So, if your hunting style is more like a sniper, choose a rifle with the same attributes. If your hunting style is more like close-combat and you don't mind risking the odd injured animal, then the SKS is perfect. The inevitable follow-up shot(s) are just a trigger-pull away, after all.
 
I wonder how many "4inch-group @ 100m SKS hunters" would hesitate to try to shoot that huge 4-pointer that is out at 200 or 250m... I hope they all would, but we all know that's not the case.

Lots of hunters shoot at game beyond their capabilities. It's certainly not limited to those that use iron sighted milsurp rifles. From my experience, shooting beyond your capabilities is much more prevalent with people using scoped, bolt action 300 winchester magnum rifles that are easily capable of MOA accuracy.
 
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