SKS and Vz 58

mosinmaster

mosinmaster

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Hi,

What is the better deal on the market today? Is the SKS more accurate due to the longer barrel 20'' vs 18.5''. And in terms of reliability which one is better? If I go SKS, I don't plan to mod the stock, maybe get the BC tac scout mount.

Perhaps you guys can share some of your experiences. Reason is that I'm getting interested in the 7.62x39 cartridge as my first intermediate round as opposed to the 5.56 Nato.

Thanks!
 
The Vz. 58 is noticably more accurate than all of my SKS's.

I'd say the SKS is maybe more reliable in theory, but in practice stoppages will be very rare on both platforms. I'll be happy to share some experiences.

I have five SKS rifles. I love the history of them and I'm an amateur collector of them, they're such a fun little rifle. With that said, the Vz. is a better rifle, but not by a whole lot. It's more accurate, lighter and usually just as reliable as an SKS in practice. Being in Canada, we're limited to five rounds in the magazine no matter the rifle, but you can 5+1 with the Vz. while you can't really do that with an SKS unless it's a D model, or you're willing to file your magazine blocker down to 4.5 rounds so you can load one round in the chamber then push the rounds in the magazine down so the bolt doesn't pick one up. Not really worth it and if you over-file, you suddenly have a prohibited device.

Both firearms can be charged with stripper clips, although the SKS is a bit easier to do this with.

Accuracy, my Vz. is around a 2-4 MOA rifle at 100 yards depending how I'm doing that day, all of my SKS's aren't this good. I can rival that with one of my SKS rifles (Chinese Type 56) if I really try, but I don't depend on being able to do that.

A friend of mine had a flood in her basement, and it destroyed a ton of old books of hers, standard novel size books. Instead of throwing them out, we decided to shoot them first. We set them 25 of them up on the pile of dirt that's the backstop at the range, and loaded up my Vz. I hit every one of them with one shot at 100 yards with the Vz. from the prone position, even counting reloading. I could not replicate these results with the SKS. I missed six of them with one of my Russian SKS's, and four of them with my most accurate Chinese one. Although the kick is a bit more noticeable with the Vz due to the lighter weight, it groups better.

In terms of cleaning the rifle, the Vz is much easier to take down and clean than an SKS. You need some tools from the cleaning kit in the butt to take your gas tube down, and if you get an unissued Chinese SKS or just a tight Russian model there's a good chance you'll need a punch and a rubber mallet to get your trigger group out of the rifle so you can take the stock off. The Vz, on the other hand, just requires you to push in a pin to take the dust cover out, then remove the working parts. The gas parts are all removable with the push of a pin as well. As my Army Buddy says: The Vz is much more "field friendly." Both rifles will get very dirty if you shoot surplus, which you probably should due to the inexpensive price and acceptable accuracy, but they're both extremely durable designs. The Vz. is just a bit more simple.

With that said, the SKS is not a bad choice. If you're looking for a centerfire semiauto rifle to plink at cans and water bottles at 100 yards or so, the SKS is probably the best deal in Canada. They're accurate enough and more importantly: they're inexpensive, which compared to the SKS, the Vz. 58 is not.

Basically what I'm saying is, for just plinking, they're both good choices, but the Vz. 58 will be slightly better. It's up to you to decide if the extra 500 dollars you'd pay for a Vz. over an SKS is worth that better performance.
 
Good choice on the cartridge. So cheap to shoot. I have a buddy with some guns in 5.56 and he can shoot for 15 minutes, I can shoot for hours... all for the same $$.

I started with an SKS and really liked it. I did tac it out with all the fancy accessories and felt that they really improved the ergonomics of the gun in a big way. Didnt make it shoot better, but it felt better.

My next gun was a VZ58 and since getting and shooting that gun ive sold my SKS. The VZ is a way better gun in every way. Better made, shoulders better, looks cooler (IMO), easier to take apart and clean (marginally, and again IMO). I like the way it operates better as well.

I think my VZ is slightly more accurate than my SKS was. Both in stock form the VZ seemed to produce better groups. This could also be due in a large way to how much easier I find the VZ to hold. Overall, neither are tac drivers, but both can be shot fairly accurately at 50-75 yards.

You do need to keep in mind that a VZ58 is an $800 gun and an SKS is a $200 gun. So there is a HUGE difference in that respect. Is the VZ better, I feel it is. But, if you just want something fun that shoots 7.62X39... the SKS will do just fine.
 
Thanks for the input. Is it the barrels on the vz 58's that make them better than the SKS? I know that most Russians have a chrome-lined bore which enhances durability, but accuracy slides a little.

For the vz 58, do you recommend the folding or fixed stock? If I do get the 58, I might consider mod'ing it down the road.

Another question is... how many vz 58 brands do we have in Canada? I am aware of CZ and CSA. Americans have Czechpoint and a few others. How is the quality and ''gremlin''? in the various manufacturers?

And lastly, what is the inherent accuracy of the cartridge at 100-150 yards?
 
mosinmaster said:
Thanks for the input. Is it the barrels on the vz 58's that make them better than the SKS? I know that most Russians have a chrome-lined bore which enhances durability, but accuracy slides a little.

Not really. Although chrome lining does affect accuracy, 7.62x39 surplus ammo isn't the most accurate round in the world anyway, so it's not that as much that as it is the action of the rifles. The SKS is a more violent function-wise and there's more movement in the bolt and carrier when it cycles compared to the Vz. It isn't Chrome lining as much as it is how the rifles function as I have a Yugoslavian SKS with a non-chrome lined bore and like new rifling that still isn't as accurate as my Vz. 58

For the vz 58, do you recommend the folding or fixed stock? If I do get the 58, I might consider mod'ing it down the road.

The fixed stock is more comfortable, but the folding stock is good enough I suppose. I'd recommend the fixed stock, but this really a personal thing. I'm tall, and neither of them really are long enough for me, so YMMV. Getting a chance to shoulder both in person will answer this question best for you.

Another question is... how many vz 58 brands do we have in Canada? I am aware of CZ and CSA. Americans have Czechpoint and a few others. How is the quality and ''gremlin''? in the various manufacturers?

CZ and CSA as far as I know. Mine is a CZ. They're both well made, as far as I know. I can only tell you that my rifle is very well made and I did not have the gremlin. The gremlin isn't as common as the internet would have you believe and it's an easy fix if you get it.

And lastly, what is the inherent accuracy of the cartridge at 100-150 yards?

It shines at these distances. Surplus out of the Vz. at these distances will group acceptably and you'll likely be able to hit what you can see.
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Reply in the quote box.
 
Everything I was going to say has pretty much been said, so I'll just say this. The VZ 58 ergonomics are a lot better than the SKS. I can get a better sight picture faster, and it is more comfortable. If you get a pistol grip stock for the SKS it'll help make it more comfortable. I'll never sell either of these guns, but the SKS really feels awkward for me to shoot now.
 
There are 2 manufacturers of this style gun in canada. CSA who makes the VZ 58 and CZ who make the 858. Essentially the are the same platform with very minor differences, but the CSA is a newly manufactured gun with a much better finish quality and some changes that eliminate the chance of the gremlin rearing it's head.
The VZ 858 is a military surplus gun that isn't as nicely finished but costs less and works every bit as good as the VZ. There are already many threads about which version is right for you.
 
There were a couple other brands of VZs too. There was the czh2003 by Hermex brought in by Marstar and the FSN rifles brought in by marstar too.

The vz is light years ahead of the SKS in every department except reliability and I'd say they're tied.
 
mosinmaster said:
For the vz 58, do you recommend the folding or fixed stock? If I do get the 58, I might consider mod'ing it down the road.
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IMO, the fixed stock. More comfortable. But really, unlike some folders on other guns, the Vz.58 folder is actually pretty good out of the box, and can easily be made better w one or two mods you do yourself. Also, if you have the one, and want the other, getting the parts for a folder are easy. The tricky part is getting a long screw driver to remove the bolt from the fixed stock!


mosinmaster said:
And lastly, what is the inherent accuracy of the cartridge at 100-150 yards?
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Haven't done pure accuracy tests with mine, but my CZ858 non-rest 18.5" Vz.58 does about 75-80% hits on a 10" steel plate at 200m. I consider that good with an unmodified Vz.58 using old surplus ammo! No red dots, that's just iron sights and basic marksmanship skills, off a bench.
 
Come to think of it, the last time I took out my Vz, I ended the day shooting at a 7" plate at around 150m, and I was getting about 40-50% hits...again using unmodified rifle, surplus ammo...but this was STANDING unsupported! Good rifle, outstanding trigger for this kind of rifle, and basic skills with iron sights.

Had I bought a peep sight rear, I probably would have done even better than that.
 
I have to disagree with you on a few points the CZ is not as reliable as the SKS not even close CZ has quality control issues in new rifles I have bought 3 one was great the other was ok and the other was a complete write off as for the durability the SKS wins again.


The CZ is a bit more accurate but not enough to make a huge difference it is lighter it has nicer feel but if i was selecting a weapon my life would depend on it would rather be a SKS i find they go bomb every time and i have shot 4 different kinds and at least 2 of each model except the YUGO.
 
Regarding 5+1 in the SKS, you can just chamber a round, flip the gun over, open the magazine door, throw in five rounds, and close the door. So you're loading from the bottom.
 
Can someone who owns both of the guns please take them out and shove mud in them, run them over with your car, throw them off a cliff, and light them on fire to find out which one is more reliable? I have both guns but honestly don't care enough to wreak my own guns to find out which on is more reliable.
 
NoBark said:
Can someone who owns both of the guns please take them out and shove mud in them, run them over with your car, throw them off a cliff, and light them on fire to find out which one is more reliable? I have both guns but honestly don't care enough to wreak my own guns to find out which on is more reliable.
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I don't think that's necessary. I can only say from experience that I've had more failures with my Vz. 58 than I have with all of my SKS rifles combined.

How many more failures? A grand total of six compared to the four out of all my SKS rifles. All but one were extraction problems, the other was a misfeed, and this is in about three thousand rounds out of the nastiest surplus you can find out of the Vz 58 alone. In my opinion, I'd say that this doesn't really even matter considering we're limited to five rounds and we won't be using these things in combat any time soon. I'd be happy to trust my life to both, but given a choice I'd probably grab the Vz. first due to being a bit more accurate, having a higher magazine capacity (no rivets in SHTF!) and being more user friendly in terms of weight and ease of use.

In a torture test like the one you described (maybe excluding the fire and throwing off a cliff), I'd think an SKS would win simply because it has a tougher magazine than the Vz. With that said, the Vz. 58 would do quite well.

You'd have to make the choice for yourself. Are the faults the SKS has, such as being heavy, holding less rounds of ammo, and being less accurate, worth ignoring because it's probably a little bit more reliable than the Vz. 58 when put through a ridiculous torture test almost none of us will likely ever come close to putting our rifles through something half as abusive? Some would say yes, some would say no.

I'd say: Buy both and call it a day, they're both fun! :D
 
Andurp said:
I don't think that's necessary. I can only say from experience that I've had more failures with my Vz. 58 than I have with all of my SKS rifles combined.

How many more failures? A grand total of six compared to the four out of all my SKS rifles. All but one were extraction problems, the other was a misfeed, and this is in about three thousand rounds out of the nastiest surplus you can find out of the Vz 58 alone. In my opinion, I'd say that this doesn't really even matter considering we're limited to five rounds and we won't be using these things in combat any time soon. I'd be happy to trust my life to both, but given a choice I'd probably grab the Vz. first due to being a bit more accurate, having a higher magazine capacity (no rivets in SHTF!) and being more user friendly in terms of weight and ease of use.

In a torture test like the one you described (maybe excluding the fire and throwing off a cliff), I'd think an SKS would win simply because it has a tougher magazine than the Vz. With that said, the Vz. 58 would do quite well.

You'd have to make the choice for yourself. Are the faults the SKS has, such as being heavy, holding less rounds of ammo, and being less accurate, worth ignoring because it's probably a little bit more reliable than the Vz. 58 when put through a ridiculous torture test almost none of us will likely ever come close to putting our rifles through something half as abusive? Some would say yes, some would say no.

I'd say: Buy both and call it a day, they're both fun! :D
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Great answer. I agree fully.

On a side note, sold my SKS today to a friend. No need for it when the VZ is in the safe. Poor thing just sat there.
 
pavmentsurfer said:
Great answer. I agree fully.

On a side note, sold my SKS today to a friend. No need for it when the VZ is in the safe. Poor thing just sat there.
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I can't imagine selling any of my SKS's. I own them for collecting purposes and selling things I collect kind of...isn't really the point of collecting. :D For shooting, I prefer the Vz. 58 as it's simply a better rifle, although taking an SKS out on occasion is quite enjoyable. New shooters, especially the girls, often like to cut their centerfire rifle teeth on the SKS as it's a bit softer shooting due to the added weight when compared to the Vz. 58, and as I'm sure you know, happy girls are the best girls. ;)
 
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