SKS as a marksman's rifle?

I just came back from the range. I brought my Russian SKS and 140rds of CZ surplus. I got the gf shooting a 3 inch group at 50 yards with her second try of the rifle ever, then sat down, shot it at 50 then 100 yards, letting her shoot it too. We spotted each other, I had my spotting scope and we were calling each others shots - a lot of fun. I managed five rounds in a two inch circle (outside edge to outside edge) with it at 100 yards, stock configuration rifle with iron sights. We got bored hitting paper, and we spotted a darker brown patch of dirt, about three feet tall and two feet wide, out in the 300 yard backstop. The range had a good wind, but it wasn't at much of an angle and the thirty cal at these ranges won't get thrown off too much, so we didn't worry about that.

So I get the gf to throw the spotting scope just a bit out of focus, and I set the irons for 300 yards. After the first five rounds of the ten rounds stripper clip, my shots had unearthed a rock about five inched thick and wide, and she was seeing the vapor trails and the round impacts in the dirt, so she started calling out corrections. She fired about ten rounds, I wanted to see vapor trails too, but I only managed to get the impacts near the rock. I fired two or three more stripper clips, hitting the rock five, maybe six times, fracturing it in many pieces, and I brought a chunk of it back. Most of the shots were within inches of the rock, and upon going there to check out our rocky target, we found clover leaf-like holes where multiple rounds had hit scant fractions of an inch off the rock.

Damn good time today, and 300 yard shooting with a decent SKS is entirely possible. I haven't had the chance to shoot my SKS more than a few times, and even with my lack of range time, a shooter without months of experience made chest sized groups at 300 yards.

It's not a sniper rifle, but I'd trust this thing to hit what I'm shooting at if I do my part. Even with surplus ammo, a Russian or Yugo SKS should be able to hit 1 to 2 MOA with a decent shooter. I highly doubt it would ever go sub-MOA, but the rifle is fully capable of being well under the commonly stated 4 to 6 MOA.
 
"...SKS has been used as a sniper rifle in..." Nope. Any time a shot was fired by an unknown shooter, in any war, it was called a sniper.

I'm sure I've seen info and pics of the SKS being used by the VC as an intermediate range sniper rifle. Here are some things I found with a quick search of "SKS sniper". I can't find the article I specifically remember, but anyways, I know I'm right - just ask me and I'll tell you!:eek:

http://www.texastradingpost.com/yugosniper/skssniper.html

http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/skssnip.html

http://www.sff.net/people/sanders/sks2.html


http://imageevent.com/willyp/russiansovietcomblocsection/yugoslavia/weapons/19595966a1skssnipervariants?z=9&c=4&n=1&m=-1&w=4&x=0&p=11
 
Even with surplus ammo, a Russian or Yugo SKS should be able to hit 1 to 2 MOA with a decent shooter.



orly.jpg
 
minute of arc is 1 inch groups at 100 yards, correct?

My best group was about 3.5-4 inches from prone supported with a bone stock Ruskie refurb that has not been cleaned since the previous outing a week before. That was with the rifle resting on the bayo, with twigs and s**t in my way of aiming and bullet path.

I can fully see the rifle making 1-2" with a competent shooter with optics and a little bit of tuning.

Then again, i did 4 shots into 1 square inch (a line actually) from a C7 with the optical sight on it. One bullet was a flyer. Can i do that with the tuned SKS? I dont think so. Can someone else who is better than me (not that hard to find) do that with a tuned SKS? I dont see why not.
 
I took a co-worker's friend up to the range once. He showed up with an SKS with Dragunov stock, scope, and a bipod. He kept talking about these amazing groups he was getting (all of his rounds on an 8.5 x 11" sheet of paper) He wanted to get a trigger job, bed the action, and even get a match grade barrel for it and turn it into a precision rifle.

When we were done shooting we were cleaning up the brass. I was about to dump his (Chinese suprlus) brass in the garbage when he informed he is saving his empty casings for when he gets into reloading and has several thousand at home. He was shocked when I told him they weren't reloadable.
 
I took a co-worker's friend up to the range once. He showed up with an SKS with Dragunov stock, scope, and a bipod. He kept talking about these amazing groups he was getting (all of his rounds on an 8.5 x 11" sheet of paper) He wanted to get a trigger job, bed the action, and even get a match grade barrel for it and turn it into a precision rifle.

When we were done shooting we were cleaning up the brass. I was about to dump his (Chinese suprlus) brass in the garbage when he informed he is saving his empty casings for when he gets into reloading and has several thousand at home. He was shocked when I told him they weren't reloadable.

Actually some do reload the steel casings with good success. You just need a bit more lube and you sometimes break the depriming pin.
 
Yugo

I had a Yugo 59/66 with a Russian POSP scope and shell deflector. It shot 2" groups at 200 yards with S+B commercial ammo, with boring regularity. The Yugo's are the Swiss watches of the SKS rifle. Here she is!

P1030804.jpg
 
Actually some do reload the steel casings with good success. You just need a bit more lube and you sometimes break the depriming pin.

Non-corrosive Berdan primers, powder and bullets, would cost a substantial amount more than a case of surplus. Why would someone do this? I could understand reloading brass cases with boxer primers to make match or hunting ammo. But steel cases are just way more hassle than would be worth it. Possible, sure, good idea, not so much.

ETA mexican match, ie switch the bullet and maybe powder in an unfired case, is a much more common and practical practice, than reloading a fired steel case.
 
Surplus CZ ammo, stock post and notch iron sights, older eyes, creepy/heavy trigger, chrome bore all combine to make most SKS rifles 4 - 5 MOA ( average at 100 meter) rifles.

Sure, using the above combination, once in a while one can get 2 MOA, as a buddy shot yesterday. Actually, it was a 1 MOA group with one flyer opening it up to 2 inches. This buddy consistently does 4 - 5 MOA.

But a good Russkie SKS, or preferably a good Yugo, a good scope and mount, more consistent commercial ammo, a trigger job, and a good shooter should turn out 2 MOA (or smaller) groups on a regular basis.

With all this talk on SKS accuracy, or the lack of it, I'm inspired to scope my 56 Tula and see if I can bring down its groups from 4 MOA to 2 MOA.
 

Dude, gimme a few more chances to hit the ranges, and I'll get a few RO signed groups with a picture of the gun I shot it with. I tell you, even with the notch sights, cheap ammo and stock config SKS, someone that knows his gun can deliver some decent groups.

Not that I'd ever EVER compare it to a nice AR, but they're more accurate than they're said to be. I think it's mostly from the crummy sights, lack of ergonomics (like who the f***k has a ten inch LOP?) and generally ####ty trigger.

I think I got lucky with my trigger, it's not super light, has overtravel but it's not all that bad. Breaks pretty nicely, not all that much travel, I don't mind it.
 
Never quite the same thing twice....

That is the neet thing about the SKS, one day you leave the range feeling great with the groups. The next day or week with nothing changed those groups are gone. I have spent many hours over the years with different SKS's trying to make them shoot consistant groups at 100 and 200 metres with open and scoped sights with CZ ammo. I feel the biggest things are make the stock fit your body and having trigger work done. I am happy with consistant 4 to 6 inch groups at 100 and 200 metres on most trips to the range. Then there are the days....well we wont take about them.
 
Surplus CZ ammo, stock post and notch iron sights, older eyes, creepy/heavy trigger, chrome bore all combine to make most SKS rifles 4 - 5 MOA ( average at 100 meter) rifles.

Sure, using the above combination, once in a while one can get 2 MOA, as a buddy shot yesterday. Actually, it was a 1 MOA group with one flyer opening it up to 2 inches. This buddy consistently does 4 - 5 MOA.

But a good Russkie SKS, or preferably a good Yugo, a good scope and mount, more consistent commercial ammo, a trigger job, and a good shooter should turn out 2 MOA (or smaller) groups on a regular basis.

With all this talk on SKS accuracy, or the lack of it, I'm inspired to scope my 56 Tula and see if I can bring down its groups from 4 MOA to 2 MOA.

IMO that is the main reason for such large MOA and NOT what bore it has or what trigger it has, etc
 
Dude, gimme a few more chances to hit the ranges, and I'll get a few RO signed groups with a picture of the gun I shot it with. I tell you, even with the notch sights, cheap ammo and stock config SKS, someone that knows his gun can deliver some decent groups.

Not that I'd ever EVER compare it to a nice AR, but they're more accurate than they're said to be. I think it's mostly from the crummy sights, lack of ergonomics (like who the f***k has a ten inch LOP?) and generally s**tty trigger.

I think I got lucky with my trigger, it's not super light, has overtravel but it's not all that bad. Breaks pretty nicely, not all that much travel, I don't mind it.

No worries Meph...I was just ribbin' ya ;) While I believe you are getting the groups you claim with your rifle, I don't agree with your idea of most Russian or Yugo SKS achieving MOA with Czech surplus. Now before everyone dogpiles on me realize that I said MOST as in the MAJORITY of SKS rifles of any make will not achieve MOA.
There are always exceptions to the rule...and I'll bet out of a batch of 30 SKS there would be one built when the planets aligned and the heavens opened above the Tula factory that would shoot near MOA. We don't need to get into the details of why the SKS is not inherently accurate...it is a great rifle and has it's merits, however I just can't take the "marksmans" or "sniper rifle" moniker seriously when talking about a factory SKS firing Czech M43 ball.
 
No worries Meph...I was just ribbin' ya ;) While I believe you are getting the groups you claim with your rifle, I don't agree with your idea of most Russian or Yugo SKS achieving MOA with Czech surplus. Now before everyone dogpiles on me realize that I said MOST as in the MAJORITY of SKS rifles of any make will not achieve MOA.
There are always exceptions to the rule...and I'll bet out of a batch of 30 SKS there would be one built when the planets aligned and the heavens opened above the Tula factory that would shoot near MOA. We don't need to get into the details of why the SKS is not inherently accurate...it is a great rifle and has it's merits, however I just can't take the "marksmans" or "sniper rifle" moniker seriously when talking about a factory SKS firing Czech M43 ball.

I never said an SKS is a target rifle, but it can do the job of a marksman rifle in a pinch with a bit of a setup. Like a backpack and a friend with some binoculars. I bet you won't hit it on the first shot, but you've got 4 more rounds to lay down and with the light recoil (more like no recoil, 7.62x39 is pretty anemic, IMO) you can perforate stuff very nicely at ranges people wouldn't think possible. I said 1 to 2 MOA, so three rounds within a two inch circle at 100 yards, not much less. I guess with reloaded ammo and a better sight system, you could make that shrink.
 
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