SKS Lent for Moose Hunting
- Thread starter rollingrock
- Start date
John Y Cannuck said:Examples please!
Examples ?? Sure.
Remington 7.62x39mm Russian:
R762391 Remington® Express 125gr Pointed Soft Point
Remington 30-30:
R30302 Remington® Express 170gr Soft Point Core-Lokt
At 100 yards Remington with a 24" test barrel lists:
7.62x39mm Energy: 1180ft-lb
30-30 Energy : 1355ft-lb
Thats a increase of 175ft-lb's of energy over the Russian Round infavor of the 30-30 at 100 yards.
Now you have to remember that these balistics are arrived using 24inch barrels which means if you have a smaller barrel you are going to lose some speed and therefor energy as well. Both the SKS and the Marlin 30-30's have a 20inch (Guns.ru lists the SKS at 520mm which is 20.5in and Marlin lists their 336 line at 20inches) or so barrel so they "SHOULD" both lose about the same.
Now we all know the Laws of Thermodynamics right ?? If it takes energy to do something your wasting not only the energy to "do it" but also extra it as well in the form of waste energy.
Now the SKS like any semi-automatic rifle will use alittle "extra" energy to cycle the action as well as extra wast energy that was originally to be used to push the bullet out of the barrel since the gas is removed from just past the half point of the barrel where the energy of the burning gasses is mainly to push the bullet right ??
Hense why you lose "alittle" fps and therefor energy using a semi-automatic rifle as compared to a Lever action, rolling block or bolt action where the gasses are just used to push the shooter and the bullet. I'm not too sure but I belive this is the reasoning behind the use of "special" machine gun rounds that were hotter loaded to be able to use the energy to cycle the larger machine gun action without having to lose too much of its balistics.
(other then perhaps recoil based rifles because they use the energy that the rifle would have used to recoil back onto the shooter to cycle the action)
I hope this makes sense I was never too good in Physics, chemistry is my thing.
Dimitri
duke1
CGN frequent flyer
This tread reminds me of an experience that I had some years ago in using inadequate killing power when hunting. Whenever I hunt moose, it is not uncommon to see a few partridges and sometimes a considerable number of them.
I have seen hunters taking two guns, one 22 and a regular moose caliber when hunting for moose. I remember one year where our group shot over 100 partridges while moose hunting. Needless to say, no moose was shot that year.
A few years ago while moose hunting, a few partridges were hanging around my hunting camp and I decide to buy a sling shot to hunt them while walking to my tree stand. I practiced for quite some time to make sure that I was accurate enough using the types of ball bearings used in sling shots. It did not take me long to try my luck with my new weapon and my first attempt at it left me with a feeling that I will never forget.
My first shot hit the partridge on the upper leg and it could not even fly off and could only limp away. My first thought was one of guilt to inflict such pain on an animal or bird. That day thought me that if you want to kill wildlife, you should make sure that the weapons that you are using are adequate.
In this case, an SKS, in my humble position, is not adequate for the job and trying to prove something such as this is not a sign of sportsmanship.
Duke1
PS. Please don't give me hell for using a sling shot on a partridge - I'm still feeling badly after all these years.
I have seen hunters taking two guns, one 22 and a regular moose caliber when hunting for moose. I remember one year where our group shot over 100 partridges while moose hunting. Needless to say, no moose was shot that year.
A few years ago while moose hunting, a few partridges were hanging around my hunting camp and I decide to buy a sling shot to hunt them while walking to my tree stand. I practiced for quite some time to make sure that I was accurate enough using the types of ball bearings used in sling shots. It did not take me long to try my luck with my new weapon and my first attempt at it left me with a feeling that I will never forget.
My first shot hit the partridge on the upper leg and it could not even fly off and could only limp away. My first thought was one of guilt to inflict such pain on an animal or bird. That day thought me that if you want to kill wildlife, you should make sure that the weapons that you are using are adequate.
In this case, an SKS, in my humble position, is not adequate for the job and trying to prove something such as this is not a sign of sportsmanship.
Duke1
PS. Please don't give me hell for using a sling shot on a partridge - I'm still feeling badly after all these years.
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
I'm not likely to hunt a moose or anything else for that matter with a Chi-Com carbine, but this thread has brought about an interesting exchange of ideas in the merits of the ballistics of one cartridge over another.
Now me, when it comes to .30 caliber hunting rifles I'm an '06 fan, and I don't think anyone will question the wisdom of shooting a moose with an '06. I can load a .30-06 with a 150 gr flat base bullet to close to 3000 fps. Can anyone guess what the velocity of that bullet is at 200 yards . . . well it's about 2200 fps, which coincidentally is the muzzle velocity of the 7.62X39 when loaded with that very same bullet (Hornady 6th Edition). Provided that shots were kept to within 100 yards on the moose, I doubt he'd be able to tell the difference between the SKS at 100 and a M-70 .30-06 at 300. I don't think the choice is ideal, but under some conditions I think it could put meat in the freezer.
Now me, when it comes to .30 caliber hunting rifles I'm an '06 fan, and I don't think anyone will question the wisdom of shooting a moose with an '06. I can load a .30-06 with a 150 gr flat base bullet to close to 3000 fps. Can anyone guess what the velocity of that bullet is at 200 yards . . . well it's about 2200 fps, which coincidentally is the muzzle velocity of the 7.62X39 when loaded with that very same bullet (Hornady 6th Edition). Provided that shots were kept to within 100 yards on the moose, I doubt he'd be able to tell the difference between the SKS at 100 and a M-70 .30-06 at 300. I don't think the choice is ideal, but under some conditions I think it could put meat in the freezer.
- Location
- Vancouver Island BC
Holy crap.....I agree with Tod....100 %, what's the chances.
Well , I do have a couple of Remington's.......never mind.
Well , I do have a couple of Remington's.......never mind.
rollingrock
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Port Moody, BC
Boomer said:
I'm one super fan of 06 too. But in thick woods area like where I live I do believe a semiauto carbine is better than a bolt action. When it comes to the calibre, I of course will pick up an SKS carbine which is lighter compared to M305, reasonably powerful out to 100 yards, fast shooting and reasonably accurate if you practice enough. I've never done any moose, but with 2 bears and 2 deer booked under my SKS in rugged coastal mountains around Vancouver I have enough confidence in this baby. Side note to 303 Carbine: if you don't like commie stuffs, hey buddy you should empty your house and strip yourself off. Even Bushnell is made in China today! But I think this type of topic should be brought to OT.
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- Location
- Vancouver Island BC
The only Bushnell scopes I have are made in Japan, no chinese junk here , sorry.And as for quality the chinese scopes don't compare at all to the Japanese made Bushnell's.
First off, the 150 grain bullet in 30 cal is a little light for moose, although it works.
a 125 grain bullet is REALLY not the best choice. you can't compare the effectiveness of a 150 grain bullet and a 125 based on energy alone. As the moose load chosen is a 125, we'd have to look at that factor as well.
Second - I could be wrong, but i don't think you can hot-load that round for use in a semi-automatic sks.
As you say - i'm sure under the right circumstances it'll kill the moose, but it IS a marginal round.
Now - if thats all a guy had access to.. well i guess you go with what you've got. But to deliberately lay aside a 30-06 and the like just to use a marginal round?
I gotta say, personally i have a severe problem with that.
- Location
- Fraser Valley BC
IMO, and it's only my opinion....
There are guys in the states using handguns to hunt moose, and I do not automatically consider them to be unsportsmanlike or unnecessarily cruel anymore than I consider bowhunters to be poor sportsmen.
So at least in theory, using the SKS, which is more lethal than a .44mag revolver or a bow is not automatically unsportsmanlike.
However I do believe that the user of this marginal firearm/ammo combo would really have to be an exceptional hunter to be considered responsible. He would have to be not only keenly aware of the firearm/caliber limitations, but be prepared to overcome them by posessing consummate skill and taking only the perfect shot.
To me, some guy borrowing his friends SKS for a moose hunt does not likely posess the intimate knowledge of that firearm's limitations to meet the criteria I posted above, and it is more likley he is a reckless, irresponsable a-hole than a sportsman deliberately challenging himself.
There are guys in the states using handguns to hunt moose, and I do not automatically consider them to be unsportsmanlike or unnecessarily cruel anymore than I consider bowhunters to be poor sportsmen.
So at least in theory, using the SKS, which is more lethal than a .44mag revolver or a bow is not automatically unsportsmanlike.
However I do believe that the user of this marginal firearm/ammo combo would really have to be an exceptional hunter to be considered responsible. He would have to be not only keenly aware of the firearm/caliber limitations, but be prepared to overcome them by posessing consummate skill and taking only the perfect shot.
To me, some guy borrowing his friends SKS for a moose hunt does not likely posess the intimate knowledge of that firearm's limitations to meet the criteria I posted above, and it is more likley he is a reckless, irresponsable a-hole than a sportsman deliberately challenging himself.
For the record the SKS is more accurate then the AK, also the loss in cycling the bolt is not that great, as it is already using the spent gases to cycle.
The ballistics I posted take this into account...hence why the ft/lbs is recorded all the way out to 400 yards.
Oh wait it isn't a 7mm Mag, with $1,500 of glass on top...nope can't do anything with it then.
The ballistics I posted take this into account...hence why the ft/lbs is recorded all the way out to 400 yards.
Oh wait it isn't a 7mm Mag, with $1,500 of glass on top...nope can't do anything with it then.
In all fairness I've got nothing agisnt the SKS to be used as a hunting rifle. I actually think it would make a good job as a 100yards or under deer gun.
Alot of people hunt with rounds that are too small for the job, doesnt make it right. I'm sure if you looked hard enough you will find stories of people killing large grizzly bears with 22's doesnt mean that its ethical or proper.
As for Calum's 7mm Mag thats too much gun for me
Dimitri
Alot of people hunt with rounds that are too small for the job, doesnt make it right. I'm sure if you looked hard enough you will find stories of people killing large grizzly bears with 22's doesnt mean that its ethical or proper.
As for Calum's 7mm Mag thats too much gun for me
Dimitri
Workin Man
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Near Coldwater, Ont
Calum said:Oh wait it isn't a 7mm Mag, with $1,500 of glass on top...nope can't do anything with it then.
I think a $50 Enfield with original iron sights and loaded with 180gr rounds would be a step up over anything in loaded in 7.62x39 and 125gr bullets for moose.
Big JD-From the hills
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Saskatchewan.
IMHO I have seen allot of enfields shoot worse than sks's(due to neglect), and allot of game wounded by enfields. If going after moose, I would choose a 150grain bullet(hornday interlock .312") for the 7.62X39mm. At the speed that its going, it will have no problem penatrating. Although I do agree the mosin 91/30, m44, or other variants in 7.62X54r are a far better choice, and I would, and do pick them over the lee enfield(I have hunted exclusively with a m91 the past few years). Also I think if your going to use the sks, please don't put a crappy scope and mount on it, your far better off with irons vs cheap chinise scope/mount. The sks haters on here have never handled the russian, and Yugo versions of them, they are way above most of the chinese versions. I also belive that most sks's are on par with most lever 30-30's for accuracy.
Pathfinder
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Northeast Ontario
Dimitri said:Pathfinder,
May I ask what confuses you ??
Dimitri
at first I didnt' notice you were joking, I though you were calculating the cartridge's energy by using the action as a variable, i was confused as to how you could think that a semi-auto's action would come to play in the cartridge's ballistics. I jumped gun and for that I appologize.
Rollingrock and Foxer: no serious accusations meant, Im just poking fun.
cheers
powder burner
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta, Canada
Bowie said:
I remember hearing that they were legal in Alberta too. Do you remeber when they started to allow it?
Calum said:For the record the SKS is more accurate then the AK, also the loss in cycling the bolt is not that great, as it is already using the spent gases to cycle.
The ballistics I posted take this into account...hence why the ft/lbs is recorded all the way out to 400 yards.
Oh wait it isn't a 7mm Mag, with $1,500 of glass on top...nope can't do anything with it then.
I most take a stance on this one.....
While the AK will never be regarded as a highly accurate rifle, I am happy to dissapoint you.
True, most people talk about made in China SKS poor performance, while those that tried the russian/ yugo/ romanian ...will have a different opinion about them.
But where in the world did you get the idea that the SKS is more accurate than the AK?
Most of our shooters could put 5 shots in a pack of cigarettes (the European package
) @110m all day long. All this using abused drill rifles and the well known ammo from the wooden krate.No gas system adj. , no black-ening the sights, no tapping the mag to set the ammo back, nevermind the incentives..... If one missed, they crawled to the target and back. Usually it was a good motivation.
And we're not talking about sniper school either. Regular infantry.
If an SKS would be my only rifle, than I guess this would be a useful thread for me - or for whoever else might not afford to buy an adequate one. But to linger on a dead subject like this started loosing its charm.
NO , THE 7.62X39 IS NOT AN ADEQUATE ROUND FOR MOOSE HUNTING.
It CAN KILL A MOOSE. SO CAN LIGHTNING. WAIT FOR THE LATTER.
Can we move to pitfalls/deadfalls , swinging tree stumps and barbed wire for hunting moose, please
