SKS trunk gun ammo storage??
- Thread starter trip43
- Start date
If it was me, I would carry the rifle in a plastic rifle case and put some ammo in the case.
In my experience, the heat extremes in a car (very hot in the summer) are not good for ammo, so I would not leave it there for multiple years. Since I shoot that caliber fairly often, I would shoot off the trunk ammo once or twice a year, so it would stay fresh.
In my experience, the heat extremes in a car (very hot in the summer) are not good for ammo, so I would not leave it there for multiple years. Since I shoot that caliber fairly often, I would shoot off the trunk ammo once or twice a year, so it would stay fresh.
There are some people on CGN who think they have it all figured out. But let me spell out my case for why keeping a gun in your vehicle could lead to you getting charged. If you are a reasonable, logical adult, you will see my point.
Let me first point out that it is my belief that a gun owner should be able to keep a gun in their car without having to worry about getting charged. Ok? That's my personal opinion. As long as you are taking care to make sure your car is locked, I think it should be legal. But unfortunately, based on our current laws, there is cause to worry about getting charged; and here it is:
This is what the criminal code says in Section 86. (1):
86. (1) Every person commits an offence who, without lawful excuse, uses, carries, handles, ships, transports or stores a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition in a careless manner or without reasonable precautions for the safety of other persons.
So let me give you a scenario: You live in a city in a cookie-cutter neighbourhood and at night you park your car in your driveway which is approximately 8 steps from your front door. You keep a non-restricted, trigger-locked shotgun in your trunk and it very rarely ever goes inside your home. You don't hunt with it, but you like to go to the range every now and again, and just prefer to leave it in the car.
One night a couple punks break into your car and steal the shotgun. Upon waking up in the morning to go to work, you discover what has happened. You call the police to report the theft.
So........here is where it gets sketchy. It is totally up to the officer whether they want to lay a careless storage charge against you or not. Let me make that clear: If the cop wants to charge you, the cop can charge you. If i'm wrong about this, and there is absolutely NO chance of a police officer (and I do mean a 0% chance of an officer laying a charge) doing this, then hopefully a LEO who is a member here can correct me; but I am pretty confident that I am right.
The officer could take the opinion that you should be storing your firearm in your house, especially since your home is in such a close proximity to your vehicle and would have been easy to do to reduce the chances of it falling into the wrong hands. The point is, there is the off chance that the officer could be the biggest anti-gun, pro-gun control person you've ever met. They could also be very, very pro-gun and not care at all that your gun was in the trunk. The point I'm trying to make is that it is up to the officer. If they are of the opinion that what you did was careless, you're in trouble. Especially if you forgot to lock your vehicle and the crooks didn't even have to break anything to get the gun. No broken glass, no drilled out keyhole, just an unlocked car with a gun inside. And if you are one of those people who keeps a gun in your vehicle, the chance obviously exists that you will, at some point, even if it's only once out of a 100 days, forget to lock your vehicle when you go in for the night.
And if there is reason enough for the cop to lay the charge, there is a chance that you will get convicted of it. Even if you don't you could spend a nice, big chunk of change to defend yourself in court.
Again, I have no problem with the idea of people storing guns in their vehicles. If every single person on my street stored a gun in their car, it wouldn't bother me at all. BUT.......I am of the logical, and reasonable opinion that doing so, with present laws, could land you in hot water legally speaking, and the logic for it above is perfect. If you still want to argue with me, it just proves that you cannot accept the logic. It doesn't mean the logic is wrong.
I don't care if you live out in the country and your driveway is 2 km long and you keep your car in a locked garage, you keep the car locked, and you keep a shotgun in a locked hard case inside the car. Don't start giving me alternate scenarios where you think you wouldn't get into any trouble. Deal with the scenario I gave above and argue based on that. But based on that scenario, you have to either:
A) accept that it is possible that the gun owner could be charged
or
B) admit you have given up on common sense
To end this I would ask that those who have told people on CGN that keeping a gun in your car is legal should STOP saying such things. You have no idea what you are saying, and you are giving out very bad advice. There are scenarios that could lead to someone being charged. Stop telling people it's ok.
Let me first point out that it is my belief that a gun owner should be able to keep a gun in their car without having to worry about getting charged. Ok? That's my personal opinion. As long as you are taking care to make sure your car is locked, I think it should be legal. But unfortunately, based on our current laws, there is cause to worry about getting charged; and here it is:
This is what the criminal code says in Section 86. (1):
86. (1) Every person commits an offence who, without lawful excuse, uses, carries, handles, ships, transports or stores a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition in a careless manner or without reasonable precautions for the safety of other persons.
So let me give you a scenario: You live in a city in a cookie-cutter neighbourhood and at night you park your car in your driveway which is approximately 8 steps from your front door. You keep a non-restricted, trigger-locked shotgun in your trunk and it very rarely ever goes inside your home. You don't hunt with it, but you like to go to the range every now and again, and just prefer to leave it in the car.
One night a couple punks break into your car and steal the shotgun. Upon waking up in the morning to go to work, you discover what has happened. You call the police to report the theft.
So........here is where it gets sketchy. It is totally up to the officer whether they want to lay a careless storage charge against you or not. Let me make that clear: If the cop wants to charge you, the cop can charge you. If i'm wrong about this, and there is absolutely NO chance of a police officer (and I do mean a 0% chance of an officer laying a charge) doing this, then hopefully a LEO who is a member here can correct me; but I am pretty confident that I am right.
The officer could take the opinion that you should be storing your firearm in your house, especially since your home is in such a close proximity to your vehicle and would have been easy to do to reduce the chances of it falling into the wrong hands. The point is, there is the off chance that the officer could be the biggest anti-gun, pro-gun control person you've ever met. They could also be very, very pro-gun and not care at all that your gun was in the trunk. The point I'm trying to make is that it is up to the officer. If they are of the opinion that what you did was careless, you're in trouble. Especially if you forgot to lock your vehicle and the crooks didn't even have to break anything to get the gun. No broken glass, no drilled out keyhole, just an unlocked car with a gun inside. And if you are one of those people who keeps a gun in your vehicle, the chance obviously exists that you will, at some point, even if it's only once out of a 100 days, forget to lock your vehicle when you go in for the night.
And if there is reason enough for the cop to lay the charge, there is a chance that you will get convicted of it. Even if you don't you could spend a nice, big chunk of change to defend yourself in court.
Again, I have no problem with the idea of people storing guns in their vehicles. If every single person on my street stored a gun in their car, it wouldn't bother me at all. BUT.......I am of the logical, and reasonable opinion that doing so, with present laws, could land you in hot water legally speaking, and the logic for it above is perfect. If you still want to argue with me, it just proves that you cannot accept the logic. It doesn't mean the logic is wrong.
I don't care if you live out in the country and your driveway is 2 km long and you keep your car in a locked garage, you keep the car locked, and you keep a shotgun in a locked hard case inside the car. Don't start giving me alternate scenarios where you think you wouldn't get into any trouble. Deal with the scenario I gave above and argue based on that. But based on that scenario, you have to either:
A) accept that it is possible that the gun owner could be charged
or
B) admit you have given up on common sense
To end this I would ask that those who have told people on CGN that keeping a gun in your car is legal should STOP saying such things. You have no idea what you are saying, and you are giving out very bad advice. There are scenarios that could lead to someone being charged. Stop telling people it's ok.
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I had mentioned in a previous post, if you are doing everything correctly in regards to the law you should have no reason to fear, most people charged in these type of scenarios have broke the law in some respect, if your n.r. firearm is locked in your trunk and your trunk gets broken into I would love to see a scenario where someone has been charged, innocent dude minding his own business charged because someone broke into his trunk and stole his gun??? anyone ever heard of this happening???
why is it not ok to do something perfectly legal? you can simply look at the regs and see that it is layed out what to do with your firearm if your car is unattended, i personally would never just have one in my vehicle for impromptu range trips only due to my p.o.s. gm rarely locks properly, how this all started from the o.p. asking if his ammo is ok, is completely by me.
Why, why, why, lol. (faceplam)
How is the topic so hard for some to understand. When you leave a vehicle unattended overnight with a firearm in it, you are storing that firearm. The laws regarding what to do with a firearm in an unattended vehicle have to do with transportation.
And about whether or not the scenario I gave above has happened......I'd bet that it has. But even if it hasn't....do you want to be the one who gets charged with it first? I sure wouldn't and the logic I gave makes perfect sense.
Here's another:
You keep a non-restricted firearm stored on a stand in a gigantic bay window in the front of your house and your house is located in a crowded, residential neighbourhood. It's trigger locked and the ammunition is kept separate, but the gun is sitting there for the whole world to see in plain view. Anyone who walks or drives by can clearly see the gun right in the front window.
One night some punk, who saw the gun earlier in the day, simply smashes the window and runs away with the gun. Do you think you're getting charged with careless storage? I'd bet you would. It would seem careless to me to put a gun in plain view of the whole world, knowing that all anyone has to do is smash the window and grab it. It wouldn't matter if the gun had a trigger lock on it or not. It would still seem to be a pretty damn careless way to store it. If I were a cop I'd be charging you. Sorry.
The point is, not every situation is black and white. There do exist situations where something that you thought was perfectly ok, turns out not to be. Even a situation where storing an unloaded, non-restricted firearm with a trigger lock on it, seperated from the ammunition, inside a house could (possibly) turn out to be illegal. It all depends on the entire scenario
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- Location
- On a resonably direct route in NS
There is nothing in the Storage, &c. Regulations (SOR/98-209) that says your guns have to be *inside* your house. Per the Regulations, you could trigger lock your not loaded SKS and lean it against a tree in your front yard, and it would be safe Storage!
But clearly you would be charged with careless storage under Section 86(1) of the Criminal Code.
The circumstances of Storing a firearm in a vehicle being careless are not as cut-and-dried as the tree scenario, but it's a real possibility.
But clearly you would be charged with careless storage under Section 86(1) of the Criminal Code.
The circumstances of Storing a firearm in a vehicle being careless are not as cut-and-dried as the tree scenario, but it's a real possibility.
have any legal references? possible court cases?
or how about... yesterday after school my kid left the garage door open, my fault for not checking it but usually she is pretty good about closing it. so my garage door was open all night. Key in the ignition of my car; however I didnt have any firearms in it.
Tomorrow im going to do some shooting. if i load my car up tonight so i dont have to to it tomorrow morning, and by chance the garage gets left open again (simple mistake). It could possibly perhaps maybe happen. Although highly unlikely as it was left open last night so i will double check for the next while. So then on saturday before i unload my trunk. i get a txt from a buddy to do some shooting on sunday... i guess i should bring my cold gun inside so it can get covered in condensation as storing it in my trunk seems too evil eh?
If you look into the RCMP regulation a firearm stored in a trunk would be defined as a locked container. as for ammo I have seen 22 ammo in a buddys trunk for over 10 years that was in a tool box still shoot . it smoked a little but it went bang . one night on the way home from work I ran into an accident where a Buck had ran into the side of a van iand I sat there for over 45 minutes watching it suffer.
this guy showed up on the scene and borrowed a knife off me and buddy proceeded to stab this large buck in the heart instead of cutting it's throat as all this traffic drove by . and it kicked him almost hitting him in the groin . finally the police showed up and when the constable got out of the car he told me he had never had to dispatch a deer before and I explained to him how to use the shotgun . he shot the deer twice to make sure it was dead with two slugs . as far as I'm concerned it suffered too long and I only lived 5 minutes away and I could have shot it with a 22 but I was within town limits.
if I had a 22 in the car and I was in the country I would'nt think twice about putting a suffering animal out of it's misery . I sat there and watched this Buck suffer too long and will never forget . and for those who jumped all over the OP get a life .
this guy showed up on the scene and borrowed a knife off me and buddy proceeded to stab this large buck in the heart instead of cutting it's throat as all this traffic drove by . and it kicked him almost hitting him in the groin . finally the police showed up and when the constable got out of the car he told me he had never had to dispatch a deer before and I explained to him how to use the shotgun . he shot the deer twice to make sure it was dead with two slugs . as far as I'm concerned it suffered too long and I only lived 5 minutes away and I could have shot it with a 22 but I was within town limits.
if I had a 22 in the car and I was in the country I would'nt think twice about putting a suffering animal out of it's misery . I sat there and watched this Buck suffer too long and will never forget . and for those who jumped all over the OP get a life .
thank you, I would also like to add there is a big big difference between hanging a gun in your front window and locking one in your trunk and if you cant see the difference there tnsaf I don't know what to tell you, I will say it one more time, if legally you have met your responsibilities and you have a firearm locked in your trunk I would like to see proof of someone being charged for this. its not gonna happen. you do realize tnsaf everybody is not out to get us. in fact when many people go vacationing where do you think most "store" their firearms, in the safest place possible their trunk.
in fact I can guarantee some opp or rcmp would suggest that keeping them locked in your car is safer than in a cottage or camp
Yes, there is a difference. And I already laid out the logic for how both situations could result in a charge. If you can't read what I wrote, with some level of objectivity, and admit that it makes sense, then that's too bad.
Read through my scenario again about storing in a trunk. If you can't understand the logic, whatever.
There's a difference between storing your firearm in your car's trunk when you are camping and leaving it in the trunk of your car, parked outside your house in a residential neighbourhood, when you have a gun safe right inside your house.
The whole point I've been making is that you could, possibly get charged. Not that you WOULD, or you WILL. Simply that you COULD. And the logic I've laid out for it makes perfect sense.
I'm done with trying to supply the logic in this thread. I wish someone would step up and back me up instead of letting me do all the work here. I know there are people reading what I've wrote and agree that it makes sense.
i have found on CGN, that if no one is backing you up, then you are likely wrong. however, your opinion is just that, yours.
That's the thing though.....I'm not wrong. No one can say, based on the scenarios that I've laid out, that is is 100% impossible to be charged with careless storage. Fact.
Because it is up to the discretion of the responding officer in the scenario to determine whether or not there was any carelessness involved in storing the firearm. If the officer is of the opinion that, based on the facts, you were careless to leave your guns in your car for no reason, when your front door was a few steps away and you had a gun safe inside your house, they could charge you with careless storage.
If you keep a gun in your vehicle, keep in mind that when you go into your house for the night (especially if you live in a city), if some criminal breaks into your car and gets that gun, you're are going to have to explain why the gun was in the car. And you won't feel so confident when you realize whats happened and that you're going to have to explain yourself.
And again, it could get even worse if you forgot to lock your car. Then you would DEFINITELY be getting charged. 100% guaranteed. If you leave your house and your gun safe is open, and some crooks break into your house and just opens up the safe and takes all the guns......you will be getting charged. You have to lock your safe. Same thing goes for a vehicle. If you keep a gun in your car and you forget to lock it one night, and someone opens it up and takes the gun.......you're in big trouble. And no one can say that they are immune to human error. Everyone forgets to lock their car or truck at some point.
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There is a thousand different scenarios in which someone "could" get charged. Let's stick to facts. Post an example where someone stole a trigger locked non restricted in a locked trunk and the owner was still charged. I can't find any.
Cops are human too, some are smart, some not so much; some know the law some don't. If cops were to lose their job if they laid a bogus/wrong charge...then we would not need to worry, that's in a perfect world.
One a side note, I live right across the street from a small Police station...there is always the rookie cop that seems to have problems paralel parking their personal Honda Civic on the side street...I gotta say, I am worried that some of these people receive fast police cruisers and firearms. My neighbour even made a couple short videos...very funny!
One a side note, I live right across the street from a small Police station...there is always the rookie cop that seems to have problems paralel parking their personal Honda Civic on the side street...I gotta say, I am worried that some of these people receive fast police cruisers and firearms. My neighbour even made a couple short videos...very funny!
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There doesn't have to be an example. If you follow the logic, you can look at the scenario I listed and say "yeah I guess I could see how it could happen. It's not impossible."
If someone can't do that they are just being stubborn.
