Slug Barrel and Bear Defence

[mlehtovaara]

Buckshot is useless and has wounded many a dear even at close ranges. A thick skinned heavy boned fat bear of any kind is a very tough animal especially if they feel threatened like say a mother and cubs. The buckshot might kill the bear in minutes but you will be dead by then.

And just for fun go pattern that buckshot with your 12 inch barrel! My 18 inch cylinder bore barely gets 2 or 3 of 9 pellets on paper at 40m with various different brands. At 40 feet it is softball size groupings but still not my choice to make any kind of accurate shot!

 

[Haagen_Dazs]

I was thinking mabey 1x 00 buck followed by 3 slugs, apparently no fosters lol.

This is just cause (mabey if you're lucky) the first shot could scare the bear away instead of killing it. Bear bangers and whistles are what I've been relying on so far (allthough only for black bears on the Island which, from what I've experienced, are as dangerous as a curious dog unless you're keepng a dirty camp).

Just a thought. While the BANG could scare the bear, the following pelting could just piss it off and commit to attacking.

At any rate, I feel a shotgun will be more relaible than a bear whistle and bangers on the sunshine coast.

 

[Boomer]

Whats the velocity loss of a slug in a 12.5" in comparsion to a 18"+ barrel?

If a barrel was progressively shortened from 18" down to 12" I would be surprised if there was a drop of 50 fps and 25 would be more like it. However, the difference in velocity between 2 different barrels, one 18" and the other 12" is an entirely different matter as other elements besides barrel length can effect velocity.

 

[Boomer]

I was thinking mabey 1x 00 buck followed by 3 slugs, apparently no fosters lol.

This is just cause (mabey if you're lucky) the first shot could scare the bear away instead of killing it. Bear bangers and whistles are what I've been relying on so far (allthough only for black bears on the Island which, from what I've experienced, are as dangerous as a curious dog unless you're keepng a dirty camp).

Just a thought. While the BANG could scare the bear, the following pelting could just piss it off and commit to attacking.

At any rate, I feel a shotgun will be more relaible than a bear whistle and bangers on the sunshine coast.

My experience is that bears are not all that disturbed by live gun fire. I saw a young polar bear approach a DNR officer who was attempting to tatoo an adult bear he was working on. Shooting in the air with a .44 magnum didn't do as much good as throwing the can of die at him. I've fired over the heads of bears with handguns, rifles and shotguns, and none of those bears have exactly scampered away in panic; more often they get into a stiff legged walk and only grudgingly move off because their ears hurt. Cracker shells will get them moving right smartly, if they haven't been desensitized by an over application. But if they've taken a hit from a rubber bullet during a barrage of cracker shells, the noise alone will be enough for sometime to come, after which they might need another reminder.

If you intend to use non-lethal ammo in your shotgun, do so with care. Cracker shells can leave partial bore obstructions which react badly to a follow up round of full power ammo. If you are in the habit of loading more than one type of ammo in your shotgun magazine, you could end up killing a bear with a slug when you only intended to scare it, or worse form your point of view, fail to scare it when you meant to kill it. For these reasons I prefer to have a dedicated scare gun and a dedicated kill gun. The scare gun can be loaded with cracker shells and if required a rubber bullet can be single loaded. The kill gun should be loaded with slugs, and only if the situation warrants it, should buckshot or birdshot be in the magazine.

 

[Haagen_Dazs]

...or worse form your point of view, fail to scare it when you meant to kill it.

Lol that paints a funny picture.

Thanks for the input. Now I'm wondering where one can get these cracker shells and rubber bullets and for how much.

I know bear bangers are like $4 a pop, which is pretty expensive.

 

[Wolfgang7]

I'm not gonna lie I don't know a ton about this but i have had a few friends that worked in the bush etc and carried shotguns for bear protection. It seemed as if it was pretty standard for them to load up with both slug and buckshot alternating...... slug/spray/slug/spray and so on......

 

[Gatehouse]

I'm not gonna lie I don't know a ton about this but i have had a few friends that worked in the bush etc and carried shotguns for bear protection. It seemed as if it was pretty standard for them to load up with both slug and buckshot alternating...... slug/spray/slug/spray and so on......

That's because they don't know any better.

They have some silly theory that they can "blind" the bear with buckshot and then follow up wiht a slug to kill it, but I say "if you can hit it in the head with buckshot at a few paces away, you can hit it in the head with a slug, and the slug will kill it, not just hopefully blind it."

 

[Boomer]

Lol that paints a funny picture.

Thanks for the input. Now I'm wondering where one can get these cracker shells and rubber bullets and for how much.

I know bear bangers are like $4 a pop, which is pretty expensive.

The rubber bullets cost more, but I don't have a current price. Google Margo Supply.

 

[Wolfgang7]

That's because they don't know any better.

They have some silly theory that they can "blind" the bear with buckshot and then follow up wiht a slug to kill it, but I say "if you can hit it in the head with buckshot at a few paces away, you can hit it in the head with a slug, and the slug will kill it, not just hopefully blind it."

Yeah i just remember hearing them talk about it. Ha why is the slug/spray thing a standard misconception among alot of people for bear protection?! So what's the industry standard on bear protection just load up with slugs??

 

[Boomer]

So what's the industry standard on bear protection just load up with slugs??

There is no industry standard, thats the problem. Acquiring and reading Garry Sheltons books is the best first step you can make as you prepare to arm yourself for protection from wildlife.

Loading up with slugs is my recommendation to anyone who contemplates packing a shotgun for protection from dangerous bears. Having said that, not all slugs are created equally, and I have my preferences. Your best bet is to purchase and test as many types as you can then make your decision accordingly. Thats what I did, and that's why I carry Brennekes when I carry a shotgun for protection.

One more thing now that I think of it is that you should ensure your gun is absolutely reliable in both cycling and firing prior to going afield. I once spent several days on the coast about an hour by air east of here, where I was acting as a bear guard for a film crew. No bears where seen on that trip (spring time filming caribou calving) but upon getting home I discovered the gun I carried would not fire the Federal shells I bought immediately prior to leaving. I prefer to have fresh ammo on these little excursions, because shotgun ammo left exposed to the elements tends to show corrosion very quickly. All it took was choosing a shell that had a deep seated primer that the short firing pin that particular gun had wouldn't reach and I hadn't checked. I still had a handgun with me, but the potential for disaster was deeply ingrained in my soul, particularly considering how close I work sometimes.

 

[Wolfgang7]

There is no industry standard, thats the problem. Acquiring and reading Garry Sheltons books is the best first step you can make as you prepare to arm yourself for protection from wildlife.

Loading up with slugs is my recommendation to anyone who contemplates packing a shotgun for protection from dangerous bears. Having said that, not all slugs are created equally, and I have my preferences. Your best bet is to purchase and test as many types as you can then make your decision accordingly. Thats what I did, and that's why I carry Brennekes when I carry a shotgun for protection.

One more thing now that I think of it is that you should ensure your gun is absolutely reliable in both cycling and firing prior to going afield. I once spent several days on the coast about an hour by air east of here, where I was acting as a bear guard for a film crew. No bears where seen on that trip (spring time filming caribou calving) but upon getting home I discovered the gun I carried would not fire the Federal shells I bought immediately prior to leaving. I prefer to have fresh ammo on these little excursions, because shotgun ammo left exposed to the elements tends to show corrosion very quickly. All it took was choosing a shell that had a deep seated primer that the short firing pin that particular gun had wouldn't reach and I hadn't checked. I still had a handgun with me, but the potential for disaster was deeply ingrained in my soul, particularly considering how close I work sometimes.

Yeah that could have been a potential nightmare if you needed to fire......

I hear a lot about people carrying shotguns for bear protection. How about like a 300 Win Mag or something?? Other than like a convenience factor (ie: pistol grip shotgun is smaller less hassle when packing along in the unlikely event you'll need it). But in situation where it's more likely you'll see a bear, or, like in your scenario, the sole purpose of you being there is to protect people from bears, why wouldn't loading up a big bore hunting rifle be a the choice?

I'm just curious on all this as i've never used a firearm for bear protection before........

 

[sherlockbonez]

I figure it's probably a lot more expensive to get a proper rifle then a shotgun.

 

[Boomer]

Yeah that could have been a potential nightmare if you needed to fire......

I hear a lot about people carrying shotguns for bear protection. How about like a 300 Win Mag or something?? Other than like a convenience factor (ie: pistol grip shotgun is smaller less hassle when packing along in the unlikely event you'll need it). But in situation where it's more likely you'll see a bear, or, like in your scenario, the sole purpose of you being there is to protect people from bears, why wouldn't loading up a big bore hunting rifle be a the choice?

I'm just curious on all this as i've never used a firearm for bear protection before........

You're absolutely right, not that a .300 Winchester qualifies as a powerful rifle in my book, but like the .30/06 it will work in a pinch with the right bullet. Once you've found a load that produces through and through penetration with a bullet that expands to the full extent of its design, and looses little weight in the process, there is little to be gained by driving that bullet faster, so I go bigger.

Over the years I've carried a .350 Remington, .416 Rigby, .45/70s, .458s, and I've had the opportunity to carry .375s in three different flavors.

My current .375 is built on a Brno 602 with a 20" Smith barrel chambered for the Ultra cartridge, and the 380 gr bullets from Rhino Bullets in South Africa compares favorably with the Rigby in its traditional loadings. I had intended this rifle to be a .458 Ultra, but fate got in the way,and I'm now of a mind that the .375 is a much better general purpose cartridge.

One of those times when packing the .375 was comforting.

There are times though that the lowly shotgun is a better choice, particularly if you are around a populated area. When I'm close to town I more often than not carry the shotgun, and I prefer it to a rifle in the dark. Additionally, scare cartridges are an option in the shotgun, where they are not in the rifle. But consider . . .

A cracker shell flies over a bear's back. This is a bad thing, as the cracker will explode behind the bear sending it the wrong way.

This bear reportedly took a close range hit with a rubber bullet, so these things must be used with discretion

 

[Boomer]

I figure it's probably a lot more expensive to get a proper rifle then a shotgun.

This was true, but the introduction of the Ruger Alaskan leveled the playing field slightly. Still, you can get a cheap shotgun for $300 compared to $1500 for the Ruger.

 

[Win/64]

This was true, but the introduction of the Ruger Alaskan leveled the playing field slightly. Still, you can get a cheap shotgun for $300 compared to $1500 for the Ruger.

This is true... Stake your life on a cheap Shotgun.

 

[Gatehouse]

This is true... Stake your life on a cheap Shotgun.

Price is secondary to utility and proven reliability. Some cheap guns work very, very well, and some expensive guns are finicky and not reliable.

 

[Win/64]

Price is secondary to utility and proven reliability. Some cheap guns work very, very well, and some expensive guns are finicky and not reliable.

You carry the ugly gun then.

 

[Claybuster]

Acquiring and reading Garry Sheltons books is the best first step you can make as you prepare to arm yourself for protection from wildlife.

X2. When the earliest iteration of Gunnutz started in 2002 someone, perhaps Gatehouse, mentioned Garry Shelton. (Yes, that's how long CGN's been around and how long we've been discussing bear defense.)

I bought Shelton's books and on two occasions his advice was very helpful to me. Helpful to the bears too because I didn't shoot in either case.

Bear encounters are not frequently on my agenda and if they are they'll be black bears. I comfortable with a shotgun with Brenneke slugs, never buckshot. If my situation changed I'd probably opt for a heavy rifle, .375 at least.

Shelton's book also encourages practice. It's one thing to HAVE a shotgun loaded with slugs. It's another thing to USE it under extreme pressure. I've seen competent shooters screw up with a pump gun when facing nothing more stress inducing than a fast pair of clay targets.

 

[Wolfgang7]

Okay points well taken. I will have to check out that Shelton stuff, sounds interesting.

I mentioned the 300 Win Mag, i totally understand there are bigger/better rifles for this sort of thing. I guess more my thought process was lets say your an average prairie boy, do a little deer hunting, some grouse, maybe some plinking here and there, you know what i mean. Your going to have a few different guns in your cabinet. Now lets say you have a 12 gauge, a 30-06, and a little .22 plinker. Now your going fishing in bear country, which one do you sling over your shoulder?? The 12GA or the 30-06? (ha or the .22 lol). Also point well taken on the shotgun when theres a town or whatever close by, but lets say your in nomans land........

 

[popcan]

I was thinking mabey 1x 00 buck followed by 3 slugs, apparently no fosters lol.

This is just cause (mabey if you're lucky) the first shot could scare the bear away instead of killing it.

Just a thought. While the BANG could scare the bear, the following pelting could just piss it off and commit to attacking.

If your first shot might be used to MAYBE scare the bear away, then you might as well just load up all slugs. Your first shot can still be used to maybe scare the bear away; but if you need a slug the first time, it's there for you.

A bear 100 yards away is not a threat to you. Inside 25 yards is another story and good luck getting off more than 1 shot if it is running at you from that distance.