Slugguns and Slugs... a discussion.

BIGREDD

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Shotgun only Areas for deer and a burgeoning deer herd have created some interesting technology in the last two decades.
The latest in rifled barrel and sabot slug technology has stretched the effective range of slugguns to previously unheard of distances and hunters are increasingly taking advantage of this trend.
Rifled shotgun barrels in the early eighties were commonly long/slow twists (1:36 and longer) and short barrel lengths of around 20-22 inches. Sabot slugs beginning with the original BRI Sabot were commonly a waisted .50 cal one ounce pellet with a two piece hard plastic sabot traveling at around 1200 to 1400 fps. These guns usually had rifled sights and barrels not fixed to the the receiver but only held on with a barrel nut like traditional shotguns.
These guns had an effective range of 100-150 yards... and even at shorter ranges the slugs were limited in accuracy and energy.
Many newer slugguns have 1:28 twists and 24 inch cantilever barrels designed to stabilize the new tech slugs. These new sabots are multi petaled plastic sabots around bonded or partition bullets that shoot 1900-2000 fps and deliver incredible energy and accuracy out to 200 yards.
Some of the better/faster slugs are Remington Core-Loct Ultra, Winchester Partition Gold and Hornady SST among others.
Bolt action slugguns with good accuracy were developed with some success by Browning, Mossberg and Savage but met with limited demand and meager success in the marketplace. Most deer hunters favored faster repeaters like pump guns and semis which led to the virtual abandonment of this technology with only one model still in production at this juncture.
Ithaca made a pump action 26 inch 1:28 twist barrel deer slayer II that was considered one of the fastest and most accurate slugguns ever developed until the company's recent demise. Browning, Winchester, Benelli and Beretta among others offer semi autos and pumps with 1:28 ROT 24 inch cantilever barrels that shoot with amazing accuracy. Remington is still using the longer twist rate but their guns are capable of shooting good groups as well... although I find the groups open up quickly at longer range with faster slugs.
Beretta ES-100 and Benelli SBE I and II offer 1:28 twist rifled barrels at 24 inches long and fixed to the receivers. I have tested and owned both of these and they are extremely accurate semis and consistently shoot minute of deer (4-5" groups) at 150-200 yards with the right optics and slugs. I prefer 3-9 or higher magnification long eye relief scopes and 1900 fps Coreloct Ultras... (Plastic removal with Sabot Cleaner is imperative when shooting sabots!). I am testing some 2000 fps 3 inch sabots right now with the SBEII and they look promising.:)
I recently acquired a 28 inch 1:28 ROT Stainless fluted barrel for my Encore Pro Hunter. I am waiting not so patiently for a fore end and scope mount so I can give this technology a work out. I am expecting the remaining puzzle pieces to arrive in the next week so I will post my results when they are available. I expect this to be state of the art (factory) in long range performance for a slug gun... I would like to see minute of deer accuracy and enough energy at 250+ yards.. we shall see.:confused:
What are you guys using for slugs and slugguns... what do you consider your maximum effective range. :cool:
 
As a first timer at deer hunting and slug gunning,I'm going with a resurrected Wingmaster with a smoothbore rifle sighted barrel.Purchased a Red Dot from a fellow member but believe I will go open sights this year.Have been practising with 2 3/4" Winchester hollow points.Yeah they're cheap but they group nicely under 60 yds and I don't mind launching a dozen or so on range visits as they go for 4 bucks per 5.
 
Well, an Encore 12 gauge slug barrel will be at my doorstep on Wednesday. Picked up a bunch of the Hornady SST's and I'm hoping this will be a winner combo. Sluggin has got to be the most frustrating (and expensive) thing going.... I have now retired 3 slug guns looking for the ultmate in accuracy.
 
I'm using a Mav 88 with a 1in 28 twist, 24" slug barrel with a Bushy Banner 1-4.5x32 scope. Sighted in at 100 yards using 3" Partition gold. I don't plan on shooting past 150 yards, but have practiced shooting out to 200.

-Jason
 
thebuckhunter said:
I'm using a Mav 88 with a 1in 28 twist, 24" slug barrel with a Bushy Banner 1-4.5x32 scope. Sighted in at 100 yards using 3" Partition gold. I don't plan on shooting past 150 yards, but have practiced shooting out to 200.

-Jason


Did your barrel come with an integral scope mount or did you have to add a rail? I have the same shotgun, and I'm looking for the same set up. :)
 
I have a remington 870 with a cantilever bbl I have a 1.75-4 x 32 bushnell trophy. Im going to try the barnes expanders 3in and compare them to the winchester partition golds in 2 3/4...of course a lot of cleaning in between
 
Hi,Jason,
where did you get your 24" slug barrel? I have a Mav 88 too,and would like to get a slug barrel to make it as a slug gun.

thebuckhunter said:
I'm using a Mav 88 with a 1in 28 twist, 24" slug barrel with a Bushy Banner 1-4.5x32 scope. Sighted in at 100 yards using 3" Partition gold. I don't plan on shooting past 150 yards, but have practiced shooting out to 200.

-Jason
 
Minshall said:
I have a remington 870 with a cantilever bbl I have a 1.75-4 x 32 bushnell trophy. Im going to try the barnes expanders 3in and compare them to the winchester partition golds in 2 3/4...of course a lot of cleaning in between
I have prolly shot more Remingtons like yours than any other sluggun... I have found that the Remington 3" Copper Solids are extremely accurate out of that gun! They are wicked deer stoppers out to 150 yards.:cool:
 
frenchman said:
Well, an Encore 12 gauge slug barrel will be at my doorstep on Wednesday. Picked up a bunch of the Hornady SST's and I'm hoping this will be a winner combo. Sluggin has got to be the most frustrating (and expensive) thing going.... I have now retired 3 slug guns looking for the ultmate in accuracy.
Where are you getting the SST's... they are nowhere to be found around here????
The early SST's had a very bad rep for seperation ... they thickened up the base and jacket on the new ones and they are supposedly very good now.
Did you get the 24 inch barrel... what about a scope mount, where is it coming from? I had some issues finding one for mine;)
 
Remington 870 Super Magnum Combo. The deer barrel is a 20" rifled barrel with "express" sights.

Was just out back doing some shooting with it yesterday. Aside from the usual paper targets and clays (with the wing barrel and my Marine Magnum, not slugs!) my uncle, in total ignorange of www.theboxotruth.com, independently invented and built a "Box O' Truth" to do some penetration testing.

He took a small shipping crate and filled it with multiple layers of cardboard, foamcore, masonite, and plywood (basically, whatever he had lying around his shop). We fired the following at it:

1) .50 patched roundball from my Lyman Great Plains flintlock
2) Winchester Double-X copperplated Magnum 00 Buckshot
3) Winchester Super-X 37-grain High Velocity .22 LR hollowpoints
4) Winchester Super-X 1600 fps slug

The buckshot penetrated twelve layers of assorted stuff, and came to a stop, badly deformed, at the thirteenth layer. The .50 roundball dented the last layer of stuff (a slab of 3/4" plywood). The .22 LR embedded itself into the 3/4" ply.

The slug (and note that this was a pretty low-velocity slug by modern standards) blew through the 3/4" ply, the back of the box, and was never seen again. The exit hole was quite impressive, to say the least.

theboxotruth.com has done some testing on shotguns and penetration (both shot and slug) in the past:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm (assorted shotgun rounds)

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot5.htm (demonstrates that shotgun is the way to go if you want to shoot a padlock)

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm (shotguns vs rifles in wall penetration)

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot20.htm (assorted buckshot)

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm (20 ga shotgun)
 
I bought my slug barrel from SIR this spring. They had just recieved the order and hadn't put them on the shelves!! Talk about luck. :dancingbanana: I have a Millet saddle mount holding the scope down. I had a cantilever on my 870, but it was hopelessly out of allignment, so I got rid of the gun. Here's a pic of my Mav88 with the Choate stock. I'll take a better pic after turkey day.

-Jason

SavageandMav88-1.jpg
 
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Has anyone tryed the mossy535 Dear and feild combo?"Deer combo package includes the new 535 ATS 3 ½” 12 Gauge Shotgun with wood stock and 28” vent rib blued barrel plus 24” fully rifled slug barrel with adjustable sights. Receiver is drilled and tapped for scope mounting .28” barrel includes Accu-Set Choke system (F, M, IC). " Im gonna order one (as soon as my PAL is renewed):mad:
 
Started playing with slugs a few years ago with a rifle-sighted 870 Express. It wore a saddle-type scope mount and put Win Partition Golds into about 4 inches @ 100 yards. Sold it after a couple of deer and got a used Mossberg 9200 w/rifled cantilevered barrel. It shot into 2 inches and still I SOLD IT! :runaway:

I then got a Savage 210 slug gun that I have been playing with for about three years. It shoots sub-2 inch groups...some days. Others it is lucky to shoot into 4 inches. I have tried floating the barrel, stiffening the fore-end by means of bedding a carbon fibre arrow shaft into it, replacing the scope and mount a couple of times, lightening the trigger, and crowning the barrel. None of these mods has gained a consistent increase in accuracy. I don't know why, but I like this gun and am not (quite) ready to give up on it. ( Yes, I am the same idiot who sold the 2 inch Mossberg!)

A H&R 12 gauge Ultra Slug Hunter joined the fracas two years ago. This is hands down the best shooting slug gun I've ever had or held. Not just for the money, but for any price. It wears a Leupold vari-x II 1-4x scope and simply will not shoot a group larger than 2 inches with any of the high-tech slugs that I've tried. Partition Golds do 1 - 1 1/4 inches. It has a very shootable trigger that is easily improved a bit. If it weren't for the goofy camo-lamo stock I'd be in love. Actually, I'm still in love.:)

I recently got a 24 inch Encore slug barrel, and as others have mentioned here, I had to jump through a few hoops to get it scoped. I wound up with a mount ordered from T/C. I've only shot it one time, and was not overly impressed with the 3 1/2 inch groups. However, I had only one brand of slug with me (Win Partition Golds, my usual favourite), and it was the end of a long day at the range. I probably wasn't at my best. If I can get it to shoot like the H&R I'll be a happy camper. As it stands, unless a miracle occurs in the next few weeks, I'll be sitting in my stand on opening day with the $300 H&R single shot, looking fondly at it, thinking..."Damn, you're ugly".:(

So after several years of experimentation with $2.50 and $3.00-a-shot ammo and a handful of guns, I find myself with 1 (one) gun that really shoots well, consistently. If rifles had been this much of an expensive PITA, I probably would have quit shooting as a kid.

Good luck!

John
 
Yeah My buddy has the H&R slugger too.. and it shoots amazing groups with everything. He has had some trigger and extractor problems but he has sent it to the states to be fitted for a new 20 guage rifled barrel anyway. He is totally in love with his H&R too!
 
BIGREDD said:
Yeah My buddy has the H&R slugger too.. and it shoots amazing groups with everything. He has had some trigger and extractor problems but he has sent it to the states to be fitted for a new 20 guage rifled barrel anyway. He is totally in love with his H&R too!

I forget about the extractor/ejector woes! Easy to fix...A 12-gauge mop/swab/whatever-the-hell-they're-called with some Flitz metal polish applied to it, chucked into a drill and run into the chamber at medium speed smoothes the metal out nicely. Cases come flying out consistently after this little bit of TLC. It works on any H&R shotgun or rifle with ejector issues (and there's lots that do).

Never had a problem with the trigger, actually found it quite light and crisp.

John
 
I was getting consistant 2in. groups with an 870 with a 20 in. smooth bore barrel with open sights and a rifled choke at 50 yds, using very cheap ammo from free pick up hulls, a Lee drive key slug and surplus SP83 powder. I was impressed. Then I magnaported the barrel and accuracy went to the 5 in area and not particularly consistant.

My other slugger hopefull is a fully rifled Charles Daly barrel with open sights for a Benelli M1. So far accuracy is not impressive but I spent more time looking for the rear sight, which kept coming off, finally had to red locktite it on, than I spent shooting it.

Lately, I got a Lyman hollow point slug mold to play with. I suspect you will never get top accuracy with a sabot round because as the rifling makes the sabot turn, how much does slug turn? As much as the sabot or does it slip, and how much?

I've read thread in US forums where they use no sabots and slugs wide enough to engage rifling same as a cast bullet. This meant modifying existing moulds or having special purpose ones made.
 
Your absolutely correct that some sabots will slip and not apply enough torque to the bullet or slug inside the plastic. Remington has the best design with their multi petaled sabots and they seem to have the problem solved. The older two piece/waisted pellet type slugs or cast slugs in a wad are notorious for slippage.
 
Your absolutely correct that some sabots will slip and not apply enough torque to the bullet or slug inside the plastic. Remington has the best design with their multi petaled sabots and they seem to have the problem solved. The older two piece/waisted pellet type slugs or cast slugs in a wad are notorious for slippage.

BIGREDD

Have you used the Remington Buckhammer sabots? Remington claims 3" @ 100 yds. or better out of their rifled barrels.

The Remington Buckhammer sabots are suppose to solve the problem of sabot "slippage" by having the lead slug contacting the full bore.

Your opinion please.
 
The wife uses a H&R 20 guage slugger with Remington Coppersolids and I use a Mossberg 9200 rifled barrel with a Holosight and Challenger slugs. Both will do 3 inch groups at 100 yards and we have got 5 bucks in three years. All were one shot kills except one.
 
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