Small multi purpose machine?

H

Hoplight

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Location
Calgary ab
Hey guys I don't have a lot of space in my shop and was just wondering what you thought of smaller multi use machines such as smithys or the like ( 3 in one ) . Just wondering if the quality is there and what you can do with it ( only hand guns / sbr barrels / small parts ect) aswell as what's out there. Thanks in advance !
Hop
 
My uncle has one of the three in one units and has done a few little gunsmithing projects with it, but it isn't very heavy duty. He can only take very small cuts at a time. I don't know what brand his is.
Kristian
 
There was a time when I started out with a small UNIMAT. I went to this machine, because it predated the Smithy and its type.

It always left me wanting more.

Taking deep or to fast cuts with any machine, is a recipe for disaster. Sometimes, you can get away with reasonably deep cuts, if you have a machine with coolant feed. A splash of cutting oil from a brush just isn't enough to properly cool the cutting tool and the material you are cutting.

Small machines, are for small jobs. It's been my experience that they just don't work well with carbide bits.

Another issue with small machines is that they are difficult to achieve accurate cuts on. Not that they aren't capable of it, just a lot more fooling around is needed.

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot you can do with a small machine, including fine precision work. Don't expect to be threading barrels with ease on one though. The units I've looked at, would have to be done between centers, rather than being chucked up. Many people prefer this method to chucking up with jaws and keeping the bore concentric with a spider on the rear of the spindle.

They make the combination machines in different sizes. There is also a lot of tooling available for them. If that's all you have room for, get the best quality and largest model you can. Then of course, comes the bigger expense, tooling.

When going from lathe to drill press/milling machine, every time you make the switch, it requires a different set up from the very beginning.
 
Buy a decent lathe. As good as you can afford.
Buy a milling slide for it. Those two tools will do pretty much all the same milling work you will ever do on a 3-in1, except you might actually feel the need to still own the milling slide once you own a milling machine.

Run, don't walk away, from the 3-in-1's.
Essentially, while you CAN machine on them, you need to have a lot of experience to be able to do a job without wanting to stab yourself in the face with a rusty fork or throw the whole lot into the river.
Crappy, half-baked tools that sorta look like a good idea, until you actually have to use them. Worse when you actually get to use a proper lathe or mill for the first time, and you find out how much of your money and life have been wasted.
Lousy way to get started, esp. if you do NOT have the experiences that you would need to be able to work though the traps and half-arsery that must be dealt with to have success.

I would not give one, let alone sell one, to anyone I ever expected to have to deal with again in the future.

Cheers
Trev
 
Hoplight said:
Hey guys I don't have a lot of space in my shop and was just wondering what you thought of smaller multi use machines such as smithys or the like ( 3 in one ) . Just wondering if the quality is there and what you can do with it ( only hand guns / sbr barrels / small parts ect) aswell as what's out there. Thanks in advance !
Hop
Click to expand...

All I can tell you is STAY away from the Busybee B2229, I made that mistake.
Three days after purchase the half nut had to be replaced. The base they sell is NOT rigid enough to prevent
movement. Overall I got exactelly what I paid for..................CRAP.

Hope you make a wiser decision.
 
Before I got my mill drill, I purchased a Palmgren milling attachment for my 1340 Standard Modern lathe. Light milling could be done with it. Once I had the other machine, I sold it. Sometimes I wish I had kept it - it would have been useful for holding work for boring operations, when the boring bar is mounted in the lathe, and passed through the work.
 
Hoplight said:
Thanks for all the input guys, I'll save up and buy both . Do you find you do more milling or work on the lathe ? Or do they just go hand in hand
Click to expand...

I build custom medical packaging equipment in the basement during my spare time, it pays for my toys.
As far as milling VS drilling VS lathe work, it seems that no matter what I set up the machine to do, I need to
re-adjust everything. On a combo it's sometimes a pain in the arse to do properly.

Read the above replies, lots of good information.
I've owned my machine for less than 6 months and I'm ready to sell it.
I started off with a cheap machine (see above replies) and it left a bad taste in my mouth
and a pile of useless tools.

You should also keep in mind that tooling up can be very expensive as well.

My next purchase will be a good quality USED machine.

Cheers (and please don't make the same mistake)
 
A lathe can be used to mill stuff, a mill can be used to turn stuff, neither is as good as having the correct machines.


If you have to start somewhere, though, get a lathe. There is a LOT more flexibility available to you with a lathe in the shop as your only machine tool than having only a mill.

That said, you could be one of the guys that needs a mill to make what he wants to make.

On the presumption that you ARE just starting out, what have you in the way of reference material?

I'll suggest a couple that are available from Busy Bee. The Amateur's Lathe by Sparey, Work Holding in the Lathe, and Milling in the Lathe by Tubal Cain (the pen name of a Brit by the name of T.D. Walshaw), and find an older edition of Technology of Machine Tools, by Krar. The first is an all round good book on lathe use, well written and readable, the latter two are chock full of ideas that will come in handy, and will give you a much better idea of how to solve some really difficult workholding problems.
Technology of Machine tools is a standard High School/College Metalworking shop text You don't need the newest edition for $80 or more. Look for about the $20 range! The information you will get is timeless, and the changes to the newer editions are mostly about CNC.

South Bend's book How to Run a Lathe is available inexpensively as reprints too, or you can hunt around and download a copy.

If you are at all nervous about spending the money on books, borrow them through your public library first to 'screen' them.

Cheers
Trev
 
Thanks for the advice, yup I'm definitely new to machining. I was just going to pick up the first year moduals at sait , I'll have a look at those books to. Cool I'll start focusing more on a lathe with lots of tooling, kijiji here I come :)
 
Hoplight said:
Thanks for all the input guys, I'll save up and buy both . Do you find you do more milling or work on the lathe ? Or do they just go hand in hand
Click to expand...

I have both a milling machine and a lathe; I use the lathe far more than the mill. Might surprise you but while I do some rebarreling, I use the lathe a lot for making oddball screws. I shoot obsolete cartridge mostly and use the lathe to make spade bit type reamers for making my own loading and forming dies and for cutting obsolete chambers in my various delusions. I used to have a milling attachment for the lathe but it was difficult to do very accurate work because it was mounted on the cross feed and there was too much slack and wobble in the cross feed. That slack is much less of a problem when turning material because once the tool starts cutting, there is a constant degree of tension

cheers mooncoon
 
It sounds silly but if you think "round" you'll be amazed at what you can do on the lathe that some folks would swear you need a milling machine to accomplish.

I've had both for a few years now and I still find that my lathe sees more operational hours per year than my mill. But I sure as blazes would not give up my mill without a fight! ! ! ! !

Just to put the last nail in the 3in1 coffin.... I've looked at these whenever and wherever I see them to see if they can do the job. As noted they are all going to be only able to do lighter and smaller jobs with light cuts taken in anything made from steel. More importantly they often have very small index markings or work with .002 or larger markings that will make it hard to do precise work by the numbers. Many of them lack a compound slide so you're limited to direct X, Y and Z movements. That makes it tough to do good threading. Which is fine since many of the cheap ones do not come with gear boxes or change gears to allow threading anyway.

So in all my years of stopping and looking them over I think I've seen one or two that I would even consider taking home. The rest are all "tease machines" that promise far more than they are able to deliver.

Which is still fine if the user only needs something pretty basic to do rougher work or that will use it as more of a shaping machine rather than a precision tool. There's a lot of work done regularly by any machinist where we simply do not need anything but very basic ability. But when you DO need to get down to precision then the 3in1's fall flat on their noses other than in very rare cases. Can they do the job even then? If the fella running the wheels is able to understand and work around the machine then yes. But a beginner who buys one thinking that they can get one machine to do it all? Not on a bet.
 
Hoplight said:
Hi kristian , what does he mostly use it for? Thanks!
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure what he does with it, I just remember him being excited about all the gun stuff he was going to build. I've never seen any of the stuff he built with it, so I'm guessing he didn't have much success. I agree with the others here that say a good lathe is much more usefull.
Kristian
 
I'll totally agree on running away from the three in one. A lathe with a milling attachment will get you by for the small milling jobs. I find I use my mill a lot and have gone through a few to find one that suits my needs. STRONG advice is to stay away from round column mills, also mt taper mills. R 8 taper is the way to go in the mill. After a few tool and set up changes the round column mill is more than just frustrating, after hundreds of changes you'll be pulling your hair out. I've settled on a Grizzly G0720R which I installed a power feed on the table before they came out with the 0722. Had a G0619, found it a little small, went to a gear head model, was ok but liked the POWER TAPPING and variable speed features of the Grizzly. Have used the feature to tap #4-40 holes in aluminum without breaking the tap. Just my opinion, good luck on your search.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom