Small shotgun for bear defense

0faustus0 said:
Can-down, I think you are spot on!!!

You summarized it nicely.


Sometimes I am wondering ... if it would not be wiser to spend all that money on a course that would teach me ... the different specie's behaviors ... and teaches me how to read a bear's body language .... and to de-escalate a situation ... or to stand my ground if needed and without having to pull the trigger ....

A black bear behaves differently than a grizzly .... and a grizzly behaves differently than a polar bear ...
And how do you know that you are facing a brown black bear .... and not a young grizzly?

Somehow, I don't think that being able to shoot a split second faster will save me if ever I am faced with the situation again .... but the knowledge of how to read a bear and evaluate the situation ... to understand what its motivation and intentions are ... and to respond accordingly .... probably would ....

I only know that my Tac-14 is much easier and convenient to carry ... and once I learned how to shoot it "instinctively" ... and without aiming ... it is fast and accurate enough .... if needed .... for me at least ...
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It's been a while since I shot slugs out of a short shotgun with a birds head grip but I found a good push-pull technique and firm grip allowed me to make aimed shots without punching myself in the face.... training and technique is important and one needs to figure out the limitations of their strength and skill level.

I'm not a bear behaviour expert but I've been around plenty of black bears both in my back yard and in the bush. Just my opinion but I think animals are a lot like people when it comes to aggressive behaviour, they are generally not looking for a hard fight or a situation they feel they may not come out on top of..... unless they are desperate for some reason or protecting their young. The trick is to not surprise one by walking right in to it (specially if the river your fishing is running fast and loud, or the bush is thick and your being stealthy moving into the wind) if you do meet one up close, remain calm, acknowledge the bear, show respect and talk to it calmly and then position your self so that the bear has easy options to walk away and you also have a route to back away. If an animal senses fear or weakness it is more likely to attack, if it senses confidence and strength it is more likely to not want to engage.

Bears will bluff charge and stomp the ground while huffing and puffing etc, these are sure signs of a more aggressive bear but if you are composed enough to hold your ground and explain to the bear that you'd rather not shoot it even though you are fully prepared to if needed.... you will have the best odds of not having to shoot.

If the bear has options to go another way but starts to approach slowly or is following (stalking) you, that is also not a good sign.

I have only ever seen a few grizzly and the encounters were not up close like with the black bears and I've never seen a polar bear outside of a Zoo.

As I said I'm no expert and have never hunted or shot any bears, most of my encounters I have been unarmed with the exception of a pocket knife and I've only met 2 black bears that showed obvious signs of aggression out of the many I have encountered over the years. I will add that even though they are usually slow moving.... they move very fast when they want to and can cover rough terrain quickly when they switch gears so don't get lulled in by their generally mellow vibe.... :)
 
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I don’t understand the obsession with short guns with birds head or pistol grips for bears. The only advantage I see is that they can be packed more easily. If I was in a situation where I felt I needed one, I would not have it in a pack, I’d have it at hand. In places where people live and work with really dangerous animals around them, I never see people with little “bank-robber” shotguns. They carry full sized double rifles.
 
All the "file the front sight off" and bring a slow "friend" advice is pretty funny.... but if you think about it people in North America were able to go in the woods and survive bears just fine for the most part well before firearms ever made land.
 
dilly said:
I don’t understand the obsession with short guns with birds head or pistol grips for bears. The only advantage I see is that they can be packed more easily. If I was in a situation where I felt I needed one, I would not have it in a pack, I’d have it at hand. In places where people live and work with really dangerous animals around them, I never see people with little “bank-robber” shotguns. They carry full sized double rifles.
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Lot's of fisherman pack a suitable handgun in freer parts of the world as well. The advantage being as you yourself point out.... easier to carry.

There are many people that don't understand "the obsession" as you say around carrying any guns for any reason.... who cares! To each their own... no need to obsess over other people's choices. I guess some people feel a need to justify their own choices by criticizing some one else's choice.

Usually in these threads there are many people in your camp who say that if your going to carry a gun for protection it needs to be a heavy hitter and carried ready to go at all times.... I can see the logic in that way of thinking even though I might not choose that approach myself.
 
It's just another safety tool to perhaps keep body & soul together. Same as pepper spray, fire extinguisher, flashlight, spare cell phone battery, first aid kit or signalling device. You either need it or you don't. You either carry it or you choose not to do so. Much easier with room and space in your vehicle.
Redundancies and pre-planning are part of safer living.
 
dilly said:
I don’t understand the obsession with short guns with birds head or pistol grips for bears. The only advantage I see is that they can be packed more easily. If I was in a situation where I felt I needed one, I would not have it in a pack, I’d have it at hand. In places where people live and work with really dangerous animals around them, I never see people with little “bank-robber” shotguns. They carry full sized double rifles.
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The OP is looking for something to have around while fishing. I don't think anyone would argue against it being easier to go about a day of fishing with a PGO shotgun slung over their back over a shotgun with a full stock - it'll be lighter and shorter. And if you're not willing to deal with the extra length of a full stock, then a birds head grip beats the hell out of leaving the gun in the truck. It wouldn't be my choice (as I'm sure everyone reading this thread has already figured out) but to each his own.
 
When I go for hikes in Cariboo Country I take an 86' Remington 870 Express with an 18.5", fixed IMP CYL barrel. I like having at least 18.5" of barrel sight line length combined with a full butt stock, makes me confident that I could put a slug on a paper plate at 50 yds. What I do need is a sling and swivels for it, something like a retro canvas sling.
 
I do a lot of wilderness canoeing. When I have clients who have bearanoia, I take the maverick, full stock, 18 inch barrel with slugs. On my own trips I take a couple of bear bangers, I’ve used them a few times, they worked good.
 
Honestly, if a guy wants to LARP around in the woods with guns, as long as they're legal and safe I guess it doesn't really matter if the gun works or not.

BTW, .45automatic, nice thread necro...
 
When I berry pick with my wife I’ve brought my Rossi 92 trapper in 44mag. We only have black bears in NWO. I’ve been told it’s too light but any reading I’ve done show the 44 out of a 16” barrel has as much punch as a 3030 inside 75yards. I may be wrong on this but 10 265gr 44mag buffalo bore rounds comforts my Bearofobia.
 
I've carried either a pistol-grip Winchester 1300 Defender




or this one for years; even has a holster that was handy for strapping onto a quad. I believe I got it from Canada Ammo? years back. I've put a TON of rounds through it with no issues. No idea what 'mainstream' model it's a clone of.

 
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If your going to trust your life to a maverick 88 then you certainly don’t value your life
Pins that holds the action arms to the fore stock break
Miss fires from to stiff a rebound spring
Locking block cracks
Just to name a few
Buy a real shot gun cut the bbl off put sling swivels on it and good to go
Win model 12
Ithaca 37
Wingmaster 870
They will keep you safe
 
frogger said:
When I berry pick with my wife I’ve brought my Rossi 92 trapper in 44mag. We only have black bears in NWO. I’ve been told it’s too light but any reading I’ve done show the 44 out of a 16” barrel has as much punch as a 3030 inside 75yards. I may be wrong on this but 10 265gr 44mag buffalo bore rounds comforts my Bearofobia.
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It is indeed a significant difference! I'll attach a video... And I have three firearms who's sole purpose is bear defence... A 12.5" dominion arms grizzly in 12ga, a 16" Taylor's & Company 1892 Alaskan Takedown in 44Mag and a Ruger Redhawk in 44Mag (IF I ever get a Wilderness ATC).

But back to what you said, yes there is a significant difference in the power from a cartridge fired from a handgun vs a rifle.

 
Jay said:
...But back to what you said, yes there is a significant difference in the power from a cartridge fired from a handgun vs a rifle....
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I think there are benefits to using 44 Magnum in a carbine, but I'd argue that for close range black bear (not hunting), the higher velocity is not relevant. If you want "enough" terminal performance for black bear at close range, 44 Magnum is plenty adequate out of a reasonable revolver, with the right ammunition (heck, even 44 Special will do just fine). With the wrong ammunition, you can make anything inadequate - Including the powerhouse rifle cartridges and 12 gauge.

Of course for hunting, when shots are taken at longer distances, it's a different story and I'd happily take any velocity gains.
 
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