Smith and Wesson DA .45

[gallen270]

Have you check to see that it is not a 45 long colt, the US used this round for a long time.
Have you looked for matching numbers on the cylinder, it should match the number on the frame, yoke.
hs

yes, both numbers match (339xx). and mine has british proofs like these

w ww.cruffler.com/Features/JAN-02/historic-january02.html

but it also has "united states property" stamped on the bottom of the barrel, and "S.&W. D.A. 45" on the left of the barrel.

do british proofed revolvers usually have those markings? US property?

its also has
P
378
on the backstrap where the web of my hand sits when gripped in a shooting manner.

Ok, cylinder length is 1.5395" on the 45 ACP version. Clearance at the rear of the cylinder to the frame is 0.1060" as near as I can measure. Looks like 0.6700" to the shoulder in the cylinder. Check your measurements against these and see what you come up with, and maybe we can ID the cartridge a little better. - dan

my cylinder is 1.585'' and the shoulder appears about .901, although i found it very hard to measure, so lets take that with a grain of salt.

.45acp has case lenght of 0.898'' and OAL of 1.275''
.45auto rim has a rim of .089'', OAL of 1.275'', and a case lenght of 0.898''
.45 colt has a rim of .060'', OAL of 1.600'', case lenght of 1.285''
.455 webley has a rim of 0.535, OAL 1.230, case length 0.770''

.45acp drops in about .09'' too much, so thats out.
.45 auto rim wont close in the cylinder, and there havent been any shims put in the gun to tighten it (i thought maybe it was over shimed before i measured), so thats out.

ive got some .455 in the mail, anyone want to spare 6 rounds of .45 colt

Pretty sure if he had .106 inches clearance at the rear of the cylinder, the .45AR would fit (.089 rim).
My mic is down at the moment, but the .455 rim is slightly thinner than a dime. I would say if a dime would fit, or almost fit in the space, that it will be the .455.

i got all the measurments above, .45 colt has a pretty slim rim too so its between that and the webley cartridge. and yes, i can sit a dime between the rear of the cylinder and the frame and still work the action.

 

[Smokepole]

I'd say dont waste your postage on the .45 Colt cases, length = 1.29". I think the gun is going to be a .455. Webley Mk I case length .886. Based on the british markings.
I'm guessing what you have is a war time donation from the US to Gr. Britain, which they converted to use readily available .455.
But... Cartridges of the Word lists .45 Colt M1906 with a case length of .923?

 

[gallen270]

I'd say dont waste your postage on the .45 Colt cases, length = 1.29". I think the gun is going to be a .455. Webley Mk I case length .886. Based on the british markings.
I'm guessing what you have is a war time donation from the US to Gr. Britain, which they converted to use readily available .455.
But... Cartridges of the Word lists .45 Colt M1906 with a case length of .923?

ok, so i know from above posts that the 45acp, 45 auto rim N frames have shorter cylinders to allow for the thicker rim on the auto rim rounds.

so my cylinder is longer, that rules out the auto rim.

anyone have a cylinder in 45 colt they can measure to compare against mine?

*EDIT* just found this on thefiringline.com

Pre-War N frame.

Year/Beginning Serial

1908….. 1-------------1926….. 25000
1909….. 2050----------1927….. 28500
1910….. 5000----------1928….. 29500
1911….. 7050----------1929….. 30000
1912….. 9100----------1930….. 34000
1913….. 11150---------1931….. 36000
1914….. 13200---------1932….. 38375
1915….. 15250---------1933….. 41200
1916….. 15500---------1934….. 43350
1917….. 16000---------1935….. 45500
1918-1919 None--------1936….. 47200
1920….. 16200---------1937….. 48700
1921….. 16300---------1938….. 52000
1922….. 18400---------1939….. 57200
1923….. 19600---------1940….. 59000
1924….. 20800---------1941….. 62350
1925….. 22000---------1942-1945 None

for the entire list check www .thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3072016

 

[dan belisle]

Judging from what you have measured, I think Smokepole has the gist of it. Probably a 45 ACP sent to Britain at the beginning of WW2 for lend-lease, and converted to 455 by swapping out the cylinder. You could convert it back, or just shoot it as a 455. - dan

 

[gallen270]

dbl tap

 

[gallen270]

Judging from what you have measured, I think Smokepole has the gist of it. Probably a 45 ACP sent to Britain at the beginning of WW2 for lend-lease, and converted to 455 by swapping out the cylinder. You could convert it back, or just shoot it as a 455. - dan

but the numbers match on the frame and cylinder. if the brits received a new cylinder from S&W for the conversion, wouldnt it have a different #?

only other possibility is that the frame, cylinder ect is brit, and the barrel was later changed with a yankee stamped one. barrel is 5.5'' just incase i didnt mention it earlier, and all the .455's ive seen online had 6.5'' barrels.

how hard would it be to come by a cylinder in 45 acp? whats a fair going price? i knida had my heart set on shooting auto rim, i got dies, brass, shell holders ect.

 

[dan belisle]

Last one I bought I paid $65 US for, new old stock. - dan

 

[Smokepole]

So, do the .455 fit this S&W?

 

[Lee Enfield]

...snip...

*EDIT* just found this on thefiringline.com

Pre-War N frame.

Year/Beginning Serial

1908….. 1-------------1926….. 25000
1909….. 2050----------1927….. 28500
1910….. 5000----------1928….. 29500
1911….. 7050----------1929….. 30000
1912….. 9100----------1930….. 34000
1913….. 11150---------1931….. 36000
1914….. 13200---------1932….. 38375
1915….. 15250---------1933….. 41200
1916….. 15500---------1934….. 43350
1917….. 16000---------1935….. 45500
1918-1919 None--------1936….. 47200
1920….. 16200---------1937….. 48700
1921….. 16300---------1938….. 52000
1922….. 18400---------1939….. 57200
1923….. 19600---------1940….. 59000
1924….. 20800---------1941….. 62350
1925….. 22000---------1942-1945 None

for the entire list check www .thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3072016

OK, I looked at your pics and re-read your thread.

What you have is commonly known as a "Second Model Hand Ejector". Your revolver was manufactured for British/Canadian contracts (30,000 @1915) during WWI. It could remain a .455 or be rechambered to .45 Colt. At some point in it's life (probably since C.68 @1995) it has gained a (probably NOS) surplus .45 acp barrel, probably to replace a shortened .455 barrel.

Serial numbers from your list mean absolutely nothing except for S&W standard commercial production. British contract First Model (Triple Lock) & Second Model guns were in their own serial ranges. .455 Models are serialed from @1 thru @75,000 (1914-early 1917).

Some "Commercial" "Triple Locks" were taken from S&W stocks and converted from .44 Special to .455, these guns are serialed in the commercial serial ranges. Most .455 Triple Locks were serialed in their own range (this means that it should be possible to find 2 .455 Triple Locks and possibly 2 or more 2nd Models (.44 & .455) with the same serial number)