Smith and Wesson FPC folding carbine

Canuck44 said:
...This gun will be of interest to the competitive shooter as much as it is the plinker and from what I can see will be very attractive to the Canadian competitors even if it only comes in as a restrictive firearm. Using 10 rd Compact mags it will be fast to reload, the gun is dead nuts reliable as the workings are all M&P pistol and it certainly appears to be accurate enough. ....
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Good point, but only if it holds up to high round counts. But regardless, I suspect the competitive shooter market is a small, small fraction of the generic user market.

And good point about the compact mags as well, but last time I looked they were much harder to find - And even the regular mags can be difficult to source.


Canuck44 said:
Check out the performance Center Gen2 M&P. Same trigger I think. With a blow back action you don't want to light a trigger. Just under 5lbs would be all I would want....
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I haven't seen it in print anywhere, but I'm pretty sure this rifle has to be hammer fired (as opposed to the striker fired pistols). So, the trigger shoe might be the same as the pistol, but nothing else in the fire control system will be.
 
Suther said:
$999. Definitely interested at that price!

I wonder if I could shorten the stock a bit and still get reliable function...
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Called it! Competing with the Ruger, after all.

I hope you can shorten the stock too, but I'm doubtful. It probably needs the full length tube for bolt/buffer travel. You might slim down the bizarrely wide buttstock to make it shoulder better. But Honest Outlaw's wife seems to handle it okay, maybe it will surprise you.
 
alpining said:
Called it! Competing with the Ruger, after all.

I hope you can shorten the stock too, but I'm doubtful. It probably needs the full length tube for bolt/buffer travel. You might slim down the bizarrely wide buttstock to make it shoulder better. But Honest Outlaw's wife seems to handle it okay, maybe it will surprise you.
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The buttstock isn't as weird as I first thought. Its still chunky, but the part that actually contacts your shoulder appears to be pretty normal in size/shape, and it the flares outward from there for the magazine holders. Would be real nice if the whole assembly is removeable, then you could get a 3d-printed replacement with only 1 mag holder using friction retention rather than a button...

12575-mp-FPC-3Q-Folded-R-Back__13343.1677270640.1280.1280.png


Will be interesting to see a full takedown video of this thing, I wonder if the buttstock comes off or if the bolt comes out the front for cleaning...
 
Suther said:
... Would be real nice if the whole assembly is removeable, then you could get a 3d-printed replacement with only 1 mag holder using friction retention rather than a button......
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Oh, you mean how it should have been designed? ;)

Just kidding, I'm sure they focus-grouped the snot out of this thing, and everything is there for a reason. Only time will tell if the ergos prove popular.
 
Canuck44 said:
Suther the first post on this thread is a video. The video contains a complete breakdown of the gun. It isn't fast and requires no tools. It is very much a step by step process though.

Here is another review of the gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkmOXCE7ioA

Take Care

Bob
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Thanks for the heads up. I've watched a few videos on it but they were all shooting/ initial impressions, and I figured it would be the same thing with that video. I'll have to watch the OP video later.
 
Canuck44 said:
Suther the first post on this thread is a video. The video contains a complete breakdown of the gun. It isn't fast and requires no tools. ...
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The sootch00 review video, yep, he does a field strip (not complete disassembly). I wouldn't say it's tool-less, he needs a hammer and dowel/punch to reassemble.

But it's not complicated at all. It's very, very similar to how the KelTec comes apart. So similar that I'm surprised there's no patent infringement but I guess there's only so many ways to make a straight blowback carbine work.
 
Rippo said:
A NR backpacking carbine could be popular.
Seems the Cheater Carbines are gonna take over the Competition field.
https://youtube.com/shorts/AHka8tBw3ic?feature=share
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With the recent changes in the ruling in the US by the ATF, those conversion kit will/may fall under the Short Barrel Carbine rules now. If that is the case folks will have to buy a "stamp" to own a Short Barreled Rifle. Before this ruling was approved the wait time to get approved in the US was 8 months. I intend to get hold of the ATF and find out what the ruling is on these kits. I suspect they will fall under the new rules. If that s the case Canadians won't be able to bring the kits into the US as we, as aliens are not allowed to get the "stamp" to own a SBR. Unless things change they will continue to be approved for use in IDPA in Canada. You might want to check with our Area Coordinator and get a ruling on the kits.

AR carbines in the US along with the CX4 Storm and MPX Sig are said to be the most popular carbines in use for PCC Division in the US still. With the recent ruling in the US 16"+ carbines will be what you see in most fdolks hands. The top guys aka Pros will go to what ever is fastest and the SBR's I think would be the fastest in the hands of those who compete at the highest level. For the mortals it won't matter much I would not think.

Take Care

Bob
 
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Thanks Bob !
It’s a swamp for all of us to wade through!!
I run my NR Vector for PCC and enjoy it!
But against a race pistol that’s slapped into one of these kits.
No chance to compare.
Spoke to an Official not a RO seems there in for now,,,,?
For the price ~$250 why not get a kit.
Red Deer has them .
 
I just got off the phone with a former AC from Washington State. He let me know that pistols with a brace attached are illegal in IDPA. Now, he is going to see how deep the ruling goes as to what is considered "attaching a brace to a pistol." We discussed the matter at great length and I will not be surprised to learn the kits are illegal for use in IDPA PCC Division.

Sooooo if they are being used at your club for IDPA I would strongly suggest your Club Contact contact our AC to confirm the ruling. My friend also said he has not seen the pistol with an attachment on it being used in IDPA. He does see braced firearms at matches but not the kits you and I are talking about.

If I can find the ruling from HQ I will post it here. Again this ruling has nothing to do with IPSC. You used the term RO which indicatrs that is the sport you are referring to as in IDPA they are known as Safety Officers ie SO.

Take Care

Bob
ps Here is the rule the kits are not allowed in IDPA. Only Rifles, no pistols with stocks attached.

B.1.1 Rifles permitted for use in PCC must*:
B.1.1.3 C. Designed to be fired from the shoulder and have a shoulder stock installed.
 
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Ah ok,,think our wires got crossed.
I was speaking re IPSC not IDPA so there could be some differences.
I just joined IDPA and got my card but still need to do a qualification.
Anyway this Smith and Wesson carbine could do well in competitions
Just don’t like the hinge deal in your face.
Just keep thinking wheel gun when S&W name comes up.
 
Canuck44 said:
I just got off the phone with a former AC from Washington State. He let me know that pistols with a brace attached are illegal in IDPA. Now, he is going to see how deep the ruling goes as to what is considered "attaching a brace to a pistol." We discussed the matter at great length and I will not be surprised to learn the kits are illegal for use in IDPA PCC Division.

Sooooo if they are being used at your club for IDPA I would strongly suggest your Club Contact contact our AC to confirm the ruling. My friend also said he has not seen the pistol with an attachment on it being used in IDPA. He does see braced firearms at matches but not the kits you and I are talking about.

If I can find the ruling from HQ I will post it here. Again this ruling has nothing to do with IPSC. You used the term RO which indicatrs that is the sport you are referring to as in IDPA they are known as Safety Officers ie SO.

Take Care

Bob
ps Here is the rule the kits are not allowed in IDPA. Only Rifles, no pistols with stocks attached.

B.1.1 Rifles permitted for use in PCC must*:
B.1.1.3 C. Designed to be fired from the shoulder and have a shoulder stock installed.
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Can you think of a logical reason as to why a pistol in a carbine kit would not be allowed for IDPA? If a pistol is allowed, and a rifle is allowed, why not a pistol dressed up as a rifle?
 
Suther said:
Can you think of a logical reason as to why a pistol in a carbine kit would not be allowed for IDPA? If a pistol is allowed, and a rifle is allowed, why not a pistol dressed up as a rifle?
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Yes, first it is a Carbine Division not a handgun division and the rules say rifle-see above. A handgun with a brace/stock attached to it; it remains a handgun with a brace/stock on it. A pistol is not allowed in PCC Division. Carbines are not allowed in pistol divisions. For the record a handgun with a brace/stock attached to it is not allowed in the pistol divisions. It doesn't get any more logical than that.

Take Care

Bob
 
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Ripped good to hear they are allowed in IPSC. Give me a chance to use my Kidon. Not sure what the issue is in USPSA. For now the pistol brace guns are going to be classified as SBR'S in the US. I understand the recent ATF ruling maybe challenged. For now you need a SBR stamp and without one you would be breaking the law. Apparently it was taking up to 8 months to get approved. My friend tells me there are about 3.5 million guns sold with braces. The wait time might be getting longer now. I don't know what the rule is for pistols with braces/stocks attached them is. Maybe tomorrow I'll have time to make some calls out of interest. They are definitely a no go for IDPA.

Suther IPSC & USPSA only requires a PF of 125 for their PCC Division whereas IDPA is set at 135. 10MM is allowed in USPSA & IDPA but not IPSC. Different rules for different sports who would have thought.

Take Care

Bob
 
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