SMLE, M98, Mosin Mud Test
- Thread starter mosinmaster
- Start date
Interesting test but you should have used as issued ammo in all rifles, you might have given the MNs an advantage over the others! what i also would have liked to have seen is the bolts removed (if possible) after the rifles became virtually unusable, given a quick wipe with a rag & reinserted to see how they performed & failing that a quick clean in & out either with a rag or water poured though the whole action with bolt removed, the ease & speed a rifle can be return to a functional weapon is just as important as its ability to function under extreme conditions.
How do you come to that conclusion?? i have re-watched the Mosin & Enfield videos again & both the M44 & the SMLE fired 7 rounds before the water rinse & the Finn fired 4!!, both the Mosins were firing factory loads the SMLE reloads & as we dont know if those reloads were full length or neck sized, the Mosins probably had an advantage! no winners here.
I guess we wanna see what we wanna see. IMHO the Enfield came out on top, then the Mauser and then the Mosins. The Mosins could not be racked back using normal muscle power and had to banged open by hitting the bolt hard on the steel table. The Mauser could barely be opened after a number of shots by hand and it was very hard to close the bolt, it had to be banged on a number of times to bring it into battery. That doesn't mean that the Enfield was a lot better but at least he could operate it without resorting to extreme measures. In the end, he managed to fire 10 rounds from each rifle but his right hand must have been very sore!
I'm recalling that the British tested the prospective weapons; then finished the test by dropping the weapon into a mud pit, wiping it off with a bare hand and it operates or it doesn't pass.
No shocker that the LE was the one to run in the field; hasn't been for some time, fastest bolt action in the world with likely the highest capacity...and still accurate.
Mauser's and M/N's can go pound sand...LE is the one I'd pick if I had to fight.
And guess how many LE's I own?
'0'
Mausers...6-7
I've an M-44 and an M-39 too
But a LE is the AK-47 of the day...except it's accurate.
No shocker that the LE was the one to run in the field; hasn't been for some time, fastest bolt action in the world with likely the highest capacity...and still accurate.
Mauser's and M/N's can go pound sand...LE is the one I'd pick if I had to fight.
And guess how many LE's I own?
'0'
Mausers...6-7
I've an M-44 and an M-39 too
But a LE is the AK-47 of the day...except it's accurate.
Yup. 303, #### on close and real world tolerances for the win.
Eaglelord17
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Sault Ste. Marie
The person doing the testing didn't seem to be the most familiar with the different weapon platforms. For example when the Lee Enfield went into half #### because the rifle wasn't fully in battery and he didn't seem to understand this. I also feel the Mosin Nagant could have preformed better if he had cocked the action before trying to cycle the bolt, as then your not fighting the spring in the bolt as well as trying to get it to cam open. Also I am curious what would have happened if the Lee Enfield had received more mud on the firing pin by the striker. That area was left fairly untouched and it would likely have the most effect on if the rifle would have fired or not (it also is much more exposed back there than the M98 or Mosin Nagant).
In terms of ammo, I feel he could have used better options. The surplus used for the Mosins, even though it is surplus isn't the type that would have originally been used with them (the vast majority of the surplus still available is machine gun ammo, not the nice brass ammo that was actually issued with the Mosins). To be fair all rounds should have used brass cases, and be loaded to roughly whatever the military standard was for that type of ammo.
I would also like to see a attempt to load the rifles with chargers when the action was covered with mud, it would be interesting to see if maybe the Mosins fairly crappy charger system under ideal conditions maybe preforms better than say a M98 Mausers under muddy conditions.
In regards to the highest capacity bolt action, the largest one I can think of is the Gewehr 1889, and Gewehr 1889/96. 12 round magazines makes it feel like your shooting forever.
That's my list of complaints, however I do feel he did a very good job and a fairly unbiased experiment.
In terms of ammo, I feel he could have used better options. The surplus used for the Mosins, even though it is surplus isn't the type that would have originally been used with them (the vast majority of the surplus still available is machine gun ammo, not the nice brass ammo that was actually issued with the Mosins). To be fair all rounds should have used brass cases, and be loaded to roughly whatever the military standard was for that type of ammo.
I would also like to see a attempt to load the rifles with chargers when the action was covered with mud, it would be interesting to see if maybe the Mosins fairly crappy charger system under ideal conditions maybe preforms better than say a M98 Mausers under muddy conditions.
In regards to the highest capacity bolt action, the largest one I can think of is the Gewehr 1889, and Gewehr 1889/96. 12 round magazines makes it feel like your shooting forever.
That's my list of complaints, however I do feel he did a very good job and a fairly unbiased experiment.
I'm guessing that the Straight pull action of the 1889/96 would remove it from the test as surely ( and rapidly ) as it did the Ross no?
LE's are greasy cheap rifles made to be ran by Squaddies with bad teeth; and they dominated the battlefield for how long?
I don't even own one and I realize that they were exceptional at the task they were designed for!
The American's came to war with a target rifle, the Germans with a hunting rifle and the British with a battle rifle...loose quote there, but true.
LE's are greasy cheap rifles made to be ran by Squaddies with bad teeth; and they dominated the battlefield for how long?
I don't even own one and I realize that they were exceptional at the task they were designed for!
The American's came to war with a target rifle, the Germans with a hunting rifle and the British with a battle rifle...loose quote there, but true.
I hope I wasn't the only one that cringed at the sight of mud being put on the rifles. In the end, it is interesting to see how the different actions performed with debris in them. I too agree that the treatment of the Mosin M44 could have been much different as that stock now has damage to the right side.
Eaglelord17
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Sault Ste. Marie
I suspect that a 1889 or 1889/96 or even the 1911s (though not the K31 as it is forward locking) would have done excellently at this test as the since he is only poring the mud on when the action is closed, they pretty much have a completely encased rear locking action (thanks to the high tolerances of the Swiss). Not really too much for the mud to get on and get in. A Ross had a mostly exposed bolt with forward locking lugs, which was pretty open to mud. I am also curious how the Austrian M95 would have faired with the mud as done in this test. Unfortunately I am not willing to do this to my rifles as I love them too much.
