Smokeless in Antiques

svt-40 said:
Does small pistol ignite the slow primers Okay? Not that I have a doubt, just never tried anything slower than HS6 in a pistol.
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Small pistol primers are a lot more sensitive than small rifle primers. That old six shooter will never set off a small rifle primer...

...as for igniting slow burning powders...ive loaded a lot of 41 colt with small pistol primers and slow burning smokeless loads and have never had a problem with ignition.
 
The guys that I know that are loading 44 russians are using stuff closer to 5477.

I imagine that H335 would be too slow...full case with no velocity...and unburnt powder

Personally, im getting very good results with 4227 in 41LC loads and im trying out some 4759 as well... this might work for your 8mm rounds.

Im waiting for a 44 american mold to arrive (bought it from Mike Venturino) Once it gets here i'll be trying some 44 american loads as well...My idea is to base it off some smokless 44Russian data that I have collected.
 
My thoughts are that alot of those powders are too slow for good ignition, H-335 and even 4759, i think I'd dig through the computer and see what guys have come up with using Trail Boss. I know, I know, at top end pressures can rise quickly, but erring on the light end will give you great loads, almost full cases, low pressure, and good accuracy. I've used some very light loads in the .45 Colt's, pressure can't be much, but still good, consistent ignition and vel.
 
For the 44 Russian I use 5744 and for the 45 Schofield I use IMR 4198. Both are capacity loads for the bullets I was using during development.
 
I like Trail boss in the 45 Schofield. about 5.5 grs is safe and its Accurate to.

Theres tons of diffrent Smokeless Combos you can use but to me Accuracy is very important.
2400 is what i use in my Heavy smokeless loads i wont post here for the Anti Smokeless Anti blowing up your guns people will jump down my Throat again :rolleyes:

Good old Unique has never let me down either.

I have been useing TB alot lately and its great but only in the longer bigger Dia cases. Like 45 Colt or simlar cases.
Id still like to try 10 to 13 Grs of TB in a 45 70 rifle case.

Anyone useing TB in there 45 70s? The guys in the USA were getting very tight groups with there 45 70s and TB
 
As far as accuracy is concerned, it seems to me that nothing compares to Unique, which gives a good bump to the bullet and helps to seal the bore. Some applications absolutely need a bump.
 
I haven't tried TB in my vintage 45-70's but IMR SR4759 gave the tightest 45-70 groups I've ever seen in my gun with cast bullets. Five shot group of 2 & 9/16" at 100 yards with open iron sights. Same story with my 38-55. Come to think of it, I think I'm going to try out some more of that stuff!
 
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Win 38-55 said:
I haven't tried TB in my vintage 45-70's but IMR SR4759 gave the tightest 45-70 groups I've ever seen in my gun with cast bullets. Five shot group of 2 & 9/16" at 100 yards with open iron sights. Same story with my 38-55. Come to think of it, I think I'm going to try out some more of that stuff!
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My .45-70 pet load for over forty years;

Lyman 457193 cast soft, Lyman Ideal lube, sized .459,

20.0 grs SR 4759, no filler, CIL large rifle primer,

bullet seated to just engage the rifling, no crimp

est vel 950-1000fps. Nice easy shooting load especially with a crescent butt plate off the bench.

Rifle; 1886 Winchester, mfd. 1894, 26" octagon, original 1/2 magazine, was .40-65 when I acquired it but bore was hopeless, so rebored to .45-70 by Ellwood Epps in 1965, Lyman 1894 tang sight.

When my eyes were young it would group under two inches at 100yds, several were just over 1", still have the targets.

That rifle and load won many, many turkeys at a shoot near Uxbridge, Ont. for several years, kept my freezer full.

I always wanted to mount a scope on that old 1886 but never figured out how without drilling holes all over the barrel. Oh well......

Now I want to add a Lee Shaver soule tang and taget front and see what my old eyes can do with that combo.

Also want to try some of that new fangled Trail Boss and see how it does, only have a few pounds of 4759 left.

:wave: Bryan
 
Universal's good for minimum loads in strong antiques with large bores, principally .45 Colt and .44 Special, producing bottom basement pressures in both. Likely could be too fast for .41LC though (smaller bore, higher pressure). Perhaps in a really light load, with the bullet loaded long to give some case space to drop the peak pressure a bit, it may actually do well behind a .41LC hollow base as it would likely have enough of a spike to bump up the bullet, and hopefully low pressure, only slightly more than it's larger capacity .44 Special counterpart. Heavy bullet, light target starting loads from .38 Special data would likely be a good place to start.
 
woodchopper said:
tried IMR4227 in my 577-450 MH

seems to be working much better, going to load up another batch for this weekends shooting :D
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well finally got arond to some more testing :D

36-43grn IMR4227 with a 405grn lead bullet (for 45-70 with gascheck) and magnum primers. Oh and I'm using toilet paper as wadding to fill the case.

no problems, no preasure signs. Lighter loads were not fully fire forming the cases but 42grns does. There is a slight burr in the rifles chamber but no problems with rounds sticking in the chamber even with the burr.

Accuracy seems good but I'm just guessing by looking at the beaten zone behind the target :D as I need to add some height to the front sight. :(
 
I have a 2.5 12 Ga double sidelock from around 1880. I'm using BP in that one because I have zero experience with smokeless in shotguns.

Woodchopper, 42 grains of IMR 4227 seems like a pretty stiff load just off the top of my head. Is that a published load somewhere?
 
Win 38-55 said:
I have a 2.5 12 Ga double sidelock from around 1880. I'm using BP in that one because I have zero experience with smokeless in shotguns.

Woodchopper, 42 grains of IMR 4227 seems like a pretty stiff load just off the top of my head. Is that a published load somewhere?
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no just something I worked up to based on quick load software and a bit of pucker factor. If I recall the max that quickload had was 50grn of 4227 :eek: I'm just not that brave.

I started at 32grn and worked up
 
ok update, today on the range I fired a few of my loads over a chrony. I was surprised Martini Henry 577/450 Jamison brass with a 405grn .458" cast with gascheck over 38grn IMR4227 and 2 sheets TP for filler were clocked at about 1560ft/sec avg :D little faster then I thought

so thats my load 38grns, the 42grns loads worked but I backed it off for my normal loads
 
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dingus said:
I like Trail boss in the 45 Schofield. about 5.5 grs is safe and its Accurate to.

Theres tons of diffrent Smokeless Combos you can use but to me Accuracy is very important.
2400 is what i use in my Heavy smokeless loads i wont post here for the Anti Smokeless Anti blowing up your guns people will jump down my Throat again :rolleyes:

Good old Unique has never let me down either.

I have been useing TB alot lately and its great but only in the longer bigger Dia cases. Like 45 Colt or simlar cases.
Id still like to try 10 to 13 Grs of TB in a 45 70 rifle case.

Anyone useing TB in there 45 70s? The guys in the USA were getting very tight groups with there 45 70s and TB
Click to expand...


I am using 12.6 grains of TB with a 405 grain bullet from the Bullet Barn in a Guide Gun. Very accurate load and minimal recoil.
 
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