Snider-Enfields used in the seal hunt

[Arctic]

Ol' Flinter, if you can give me the serial number and the patent #(on top) I should be able to look it up for you, at least approximately.
I have another Alex Henry seal rifle, marked WGX on the stock and barrel, pretty rough, beyond a rebuild. Seems the majority were .450 BP. Out of 7 that I have, only one isn't .450. Hard to believe, but the Alex Henrys were a high grade rifle, not cheap even then, but were used due to their accuracy for seals.

 

[tokguy]

Damn right! That's why pirates got extinct for a very long time... and are only now re-emerging in the gun-free liberal era (where victims can't fight back + liberal sentences are a joke... makes you wonder why there aren't MORE pirates out there, lol! After all, it seems to be a very safe profession nowadays.)





I have an uncle that spent his whole life on ocean ships... they usually start off in Europe, then go to Africa and then either the Americas or Asia. None of the ships he was on over many decades carried ANY armament, their directive was to avoid all confrontation at all costs (apparently, that applies to all commercial fleets - I don't know under which laws though). How very socialist! My uncle also thinks that policy is BS and doesn't feel safe at all when near danger zones, but would certainly lose his job if he was packing heat and anyone would find out. If I were on one of those freakin ships, I'd always have an SKS or CZ stashed away in my cabin - or a Dragunov/AK, if the ship was registered outside of Canada (even better!). In such a situation of constant piracy danger, I'd certainly say "screw their stupid fleet procedures and maritime laws, my life is worth more than a piece of paper with some writing on it". After all, pirates don't obey it and nothing happens to them (most of the time, as usually they just get released free without their guns when caught).

That said, I would never settle for being like one of those poor fools sitting in the galley of their own ship with some stinkin' pirate pointing an AK barrel at their head... and demanding ransom on CNN!

Beeh... beeh.. beeh... (sheep sounds)




P.S. I saw my uncle just a few months ago and we had a very long talk about this matter, since it is very current these days and I'm into firearm collecting/target shooting. He told me that a commercial ship's best defense is range. The speedboats can't keep up with them in the long run, simply because they don't have enough fuel to get back to shore. This is why ships will tend to stay away from the coast or any large 'mother ship' that may be lurking on radar in a danger zone. That strategy works *most* of the time (unless someone falls asleep at the switch), but there are no guns on board... with the exception of a possible 9mm pistol that the ship captain may or may not carry (to counteract a mutiny, perhaps? Definitely not for pirate defense).

Did a little time oversea's on the rig's. I missed Nigeria; thats good. I was told you keep a level head and mind your P's & Q's in a ransom situation and you'll turn out fine. The only trouble I ever heard of was an employee who was confrontational and wouldn't shut up. He got a beating.
Rambo can go up against 10 - 15 pirates armed with AK's and rocket launchers; myself I think I'd hold off dragging iron against pirates. Seems like a pretty good way to spring some nasty leaks.

 

[Colin]

Ships used to have fortified "islands" with barbed wire and guns while traveling the Indian Ocean and other areas, this was in the day of coal and before RPG's

 

[DATAM]

I don't want to sidetrack a very good thread on historic firearms but I just had to post this. (i'm an ex merchant navy officer) The present day policy of paying ransoms to pirates is the reason piracy flourishes. The violence and hostage taking is unnacceptably high. Apparently we have forgotten history again. Pirates and pirate vessels are stateless persons and vessels and should be treated as the vermin they are.

Dane-Geld
A.D. 980-1016
It is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation
To call upon a neighbour and to say: --
"We invaded you last night--we are quite prepared to fight,
Unless you pay us cash to go away."

And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
And the people who ask it explain
That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld
And then you'll get rid of the Dane!

It is always a temptation for a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say: --
"Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away."

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.

It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear they should succumb and go astray;
So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
You will find it better policy to say: --

"We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that pays it is lost!"

Rudyard Kipling

 

[Ol' Flinter]

Hello Arctic:
The serial no. on my Alex Henry is 4678 but I cannot find any patent date on it. On the underside of the barrel, inside the forend, is what looks to be a stamp "A&T 10" although the "0" is smaller than the "1" and almost looks like a superscript. On both the action and barrel is the British Proof Mark of a crown over a V. My gun does not have the name of Alex Henry anywhere on it but it undoubtedly is such. All the exposed metal, except the barrel (cold blued) was color case hardened, with scroll engraving on the receiver, tangs and lever. the interior lock mechanism is highly polished and as new. There is checkering on both the forend and wrist so it was a pretty piece in it's day, for a seal gun. Rifling is 7 each of alternate wide and narrow lands with very narrow, shallow V grooves between the lands. If I could figure out how to post some photos I would do so.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Dantforth]

It sounds like "Henry" rifling as in the Martini Henry. I really have enjoyed this post. I have always desired an Alex Henry rifle but haven't achieved the pinacle of collecting yet. I don't have the history but isn't it likely that Alexander Henry is the inventor of the Henry rifling? Too late in the day for me to be thinking.....Dave

 

[smellie]

Glad somebody else has read England's book and anjoys it. When the critics get hold of a copy, they are merciless, criticising England's phonetic spelling of the Newfoundland language as "quaint" and "forced". Obviously, the critics never lived out there, in the Outports, where a lot of the sealing crews came from.
I found that if you SAY England's version of Newfie exactly as he spells it, you can tell WHAT PART of Newfoundland an individual man came from, and often narrow it right down to a single community! So much for the critics! England was right. "You drops your aitch in 'Olyrood an' picks it up in H'Avondale" goes the old rhyme, and it is correct.
I lived 2 years on Fogo Island, a year in Seldom-Come-By and a year in Joe Batt's Arm and will say nothing about the "cuteness" or "quaintness" of Newfoundland speech. It is its own language, and is a recognised dialect of English, based strongly on West Country English of the late 17th Century with a huge number of localisms added in for good measure. It is nothing to be laughed at. It is the speech of history, preserved and added to: almost a fossil language, rather like Icelandic. It's just too bad that CBC English seems to be superceding it.

I loaded ammunition for the Fogo Island sealing fleet for a year (when it still was legal), making up huge piles of .222 Remington and .243 Winchester ammo. Loaded the .222 with Hornady 50-grain SX slugs, the .243 with Hornady 75-grain HP. A seal's skull is hardly thicker than a matchbook cover and they were shot when on a pan or at the surface, so no problems. The bottom of the Labrador Sea is PAVED with brass. Big rifles at that time were Remington 788, Winchester 670 and Winchester '94 in .30-30.

Hope I have been of some help...... sort of bringing things up to date.

 

[crusoe]

Veering slightly away from Newfoundland sealing guns, but staying broadly on topic ...

My grandfather was a British merchant navy officer in the Clan Line, one of the last of the great East Indies shipping companies. During his time at sea (1920s to early 1960s) the ships were always armed, with officers having access to revolvers and rifles. I have a photo of my grandfather in uniform at Durban in South Africa with the ship's port agent, and my grandfather has a revolver in his uniform pocket - they went armed when they picked up cash in some local ports. The Clan Line merged with the Union Castle line in the 50s, I think, and somewhere - gunbroker I think - I saw a couple of Union Castle marked Webleys for sale, so they are out there!

Many merchant navy officers like my grandfather had been to school on HMS Conway where they were Midshipmen RNR and did rifle shooting as part of their training. This meant at the outbreak of war they were well able to do the hasty training courses the navy set up to teach merchant navy officers to be their ship's gunnery officers, as my grandfather was - in charge of his ship's 12 pdr ex-WW1 gun and two Lewis guns, before the DEMS gunners took over later in the war.

The Clan Line crews were Indian 'Lascars', and during the terrible conflict following Indian partition there were many knifings etc between the Muslims and Hindus in his crews, so the officers wore revolvers for some of that time too.

I don't think there was a problem with piracy in his day because no pirate would dream of attacking a merchant ship that was well-armed and whose officers were trained shots who would have had little hesitation about shooting to kill. A lesson there somewhere!