So, I bet this has never been asked before...
- Thread starter mikeg81
- Start date
well, i would rank the M48 quite low compared to a real 98k.
many will agree, and many will disagree, but IMO the 98k is a *better* rifle than the mosin M44. i have never shot a mosin of any sort ( this includes finn and postwar polish rifles) that could be operated as quickly as a mauser.
i should add that i can't see myself ever carrying either into battle, but that both work just fine for hunting and shooting. i have taken game with the M48 (1 deer), 98k (3 deer), and M44 (2 deer). accuracy is pretty similar and is limited by both the sights and my shooting skill.
i would rate a polish M44 as a better built rifle than a yugo M48.
many will agree, and many will disagree, but IMO the 98k is a *better* rifle than the mosin M44. i have never shot a mosin of any sort ( this includes finn and postwar polish rifles) that could be operated as quickly as a mauser.
i should add that i can't see myself ever carrying either into battle, but that both work just fine for hunting and shooting. i have taken game with the M48 (1 deer), 98k (3 deer), and M44 (2 deer). accuracy is pretty similar and is limited by both the sights and my shooting skill.
i would rate a polish M44 as a better built rifle than a yugo M48.
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MauserMike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
Don't ask here. Go out and ask hunters in Europe, South America and Africa for the last 100 years and you'll get your answer 
Don't ask here. Go out and ask hunters in Europe, South America and Africa for the last 100 years and you'll get your answer
i dunno, most hunters (other than rich ones) used what they could get, this meant lee enfields in canada, australia, large parts of africa. mausers in many other places. i am sure there are many mosins kicking around russia, eastern europe, and central asia.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
well, i would rank the M48 quite low compared to a real 98k.
many will agree, and many will disagree, but IMO the 98k is a *better* rifle than the mosin M44. i have never shot a mosin of any sort ( this includes finn and postwar polish rifles) that could be operated as quickly as a mauser
And there isn't a mouser that can be operated as quickly as a Lee-enfield
Coyote Ugly
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Any rifle is only as good as the persons skill, the ammo and the maintenance and care the rifle receives.
- Location
- Vancouver Island BC
that was fortier that wrote that, he is a tool and his article wasn't worth the paper it was printed on. his test was very flawed as well, IIRC for accuracy (which the mosin won) 4/5 loads were match loads, whereas for the mauser the ammo was misc milsurp. he also must of had a very slick mosin to get off more shots in whatever time than with the mauser. i have shot a fair number of mosin's and have never found one that i could come close to a mauser for speed.
Check world.guns.ru for an example, even the russians themselves say the mosin was an average rifle, for average citizens to use. Nothing special it just works, and that seems to be the prevailing idea from the originators on that rifle. Yah it worked, nothign special.
Then i could go on and on about the mauser action and its longevity, safety, reliability, accuracy and how it set a benchmark until this day from which it is still used and copied...a notion shared by many prominent gun makers, shooters and writters...
then the mosin lovers will jump all around and say their mosins are the greatest thing since sliced bread, arguing superior reliabilty, simpler action and better sights...
then the enfield lovers will jump in and say the enfield is better than both, with smoother actions, better sights and bigger clip capacity...
They all work, its personal opinon. The accuracy and reliability differences i would say between them are near negligible for even hard use. You would have to give a mauser, mosin or enfield a HECK OF A THRASHING for any one to malfunction. That being said i think for a good quality rifle for any of these optoins, the MOA difference would be 1-2inches at most, all will place within 3-4 inches with milsurp or better unless you have a beat rifle. The rest, ergonomics, action smoothness, mag capacity, sights etc are all up to the users preference.
Personally i think the 7.62nato mausers, israeli and spanish FR8 are the best overall for regular use. Near new barrels provide fantastic accuracy in a widely available .308 cartridge. Everything great about a reliable milsurp action in a common cartridge. Now if those .308 enfields were only cheaper and more available, in Canada id be interested in them too, but im a mauser guy myself.
Then i could go on and on about the mauser action and its longevity, safety, reliability, accuracy and how it set a benchmark until this day from which it is still used and copied...a notion shared by many prominent gun makers, shooters and writters...
then the mosin lovers will jump all around and say their mosins are the greatest thing since sliced bread, arguing superior reliabilty, simpler action and better sights...
then the enfield lovers will jump in and say the enfield is better than both, with smoother actions, better sights and bigger clip capacity...
They all work, its personal opinon. The accuracy and reliability differences i would say between them are near negligible for even hard use. You would have to give a mauser, mosin or enfield a HECK OF A THRASHING for any one to malfunction. That being said i think for a good quality rifle for any of these optoins, the MOA difference would be 1-2inches at most, all will place within 3-4 inches with milsurp or better unless you have a beat rifle. The rest, ergonomics, action smoothness, mag capacity, sights etc are all up to the users preference.
Personally i think the 7.62nato mausers, israeli and spanish FR8 are the best overall for regular use. Near new barrels provide fantastic accuracy in a widely available .308 cartridge. Everything great about a reliable milsurp action in a common cartridge. Now if those .308 enfields were only cheaper and more available, in Canada id be interested in them too, but im a mauser guy myself.
For Hunting a Isreali 98K chambered in 308Win with ammo you can pick up off the shelf for hunting at any store that sells ammo can't be beat from the 2 you listed.
Mind you for a bolt I'd get a hold of a No. 4 Lee Enfield for hunting. Ammo is just as common as the 308Win and it has a better sight system then both of the other rifles specially when equipped with a micrometer sight.
Or you could always go with a M1 Garand, dirt common ammo agian, or a M1A/M14 in 308Win is also easy to find ammo for the gun. If you want a military style Semi-automatic. I guess the SKS can be considered, but not for much more then a Bush gun IMHO.
Dimitri
Mind you for a bolt I'd get a hold of a No. 4 Lee Enfield for hunting. Ammo is just as common as the 308Win and it has a better sight system then both of the other rifles specially when equipped with a micrometer sight.
Or you could always go with a M1 Garand, dirt common ammo agian, or a M1A/M14 in 308Win is also easy to find ammo for the gun. If you want a military style Semi-automatic. I guess the SKS can be considered, but not for much more then a Bush gun IMHO.
Dimitri
Seems I touched a nerve. Take a deep breath and remember that that Mauser has been domesticated and is alive and well
MauserMike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
The Mauser 98 has several features that really make it the design to beat for a general hunting rifle and dangerous game rifle.
1. Controlled round feeding - no double feeds, no jamming if you turn the rifle sideways or upsidedown while working the bolt in a panic. Also, it can be made to feed very quietly.
2. Very strong action - has been chambered right out to the big safari loads.
3. The Mauser 98 was designed right from the start to be easily modified for calibre. This no doubt contributed to its widespread use. Need a rifle in your country's calibre of choice, the Mauser brothers can build you 100,000 to order. This no doubt helped Germany both through the Versailles years and later when they overran other countries producing Mauser rifles (Belgium, Poland, Czech) There are many truly excellent cartridges, many attributed to Paul Mauser himself. 7.62x54R and .303 British are antiquated, rimmed cartridges. (not a slag, they get the job done but...)
4. Very strong extraction. That big claw and the camming action of the bolt pull even the tightest brass from the breech.
5. A bit clumsy to work in modern terms but probably one of the best safety designs ever. Simple, extremely safe.
I think that all the rifles mentioned do the job. The Mosin is found in widespread use in the former USSR but I'm going to guess from availability more than anything else. The Enfield similarly throughout "the Empire" but its main weakness IMO is the strength of its action. If your quarry can be taken down with .303, great.
They say that imitation is flattery. In that case, the Mauser action has been more imitated than any other action in the world. Sorry but I think this is an absolute no-brainer - Mauser #1 military hunting rifle (CN Tower type #1).
1. Controlled round feeding - no double feeds, no jamming if you turn the rifle sideways or upsidedown while working the bolt in a panic. Also, it can be made to feed very quietly.
2. Very strong action - has been chambered right out to the big safari loads.
3. The Mauser 98 was designed right from the start to be easily modified for calibre. This no doubt contributed to its widespread use. Need a rifle in your country's calibre of choice, the Mauser brothers can build you 100,000 to order. This no doubt helped Germany both through the Versailles years and later when they overran other countries producing Mauser rifles (Belgium, Poland, Czech) There are many truly excellent cartridges, many attributed to Paul Mauser himself. 7.62x54R and .303 British are antiquated, rimmed cartridges. (not a slag, they get the job done but...)
4. Very strong extraction. That big claw and the camming action of the bolt pull even the tightest brass from the breech.
5. A bit clumsy to work in modern terms but probably one of the best safety designs ever. Simple, extremely safe.
I think that all the rifles mentioned do the job. The Mosin is found in widespread use in the former USSR but I'm going to guess from availability more than anything else. The Enfield similarly throughout "the Empire" but its main weakness IMO is the strength of its action. If your quarry can be taken down with .303, great.
They say that imitation is flattery. In that case, the Mauser action has been more imitated than any other action in the world. Sorry but I think this is an absolute no-brainer - Mauser #1 military hunting rifle (CN Tower type #1).
With the Mosin M44 make sure you fold the bayonet out, apparently these rifles were sighted in to shoot at their most accurate in this battle ready configuration.
I have not problem hitting the same spot on the 200 yard ram with mine, and would have no problem hunting with it if I could find fricken Deer in our area before the close of the season.
Also I find it more accurate, and reliable then .303 Lee Enfields I have.
I have not problem hitting the same spot on the 200 yard ram with mine, and would have no problem hunting with it if I could find fricken Deer in our area before the close of the season.
Also I find it more accurate, and reliable then .303 Lee Enfields I have.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
Here we go again, with the "weak" enfield action bull####e
Of course Ve all knows der mouser is capable of chambering a round big enough to destroy small villages at a single blow! BSA chambered the commercial version of the lee in various calibres, at least one being heavy enough to ruin an elephant's day.
Of course Ve all knows der mouser is capable of chambering a round big enough to destroy small villages at a single blow! BSA chambered the commercial version of the lee in various calibres, at least one being heavy enough to ruin an elephant's day.
