So I bought a lathe....

Unsub said:
I am interested in doing some machining and metalwork and would like to know what is the cheapest/smallest lathe that you could realistically do gunsmithing ,some knife handles or pieces and even maybe some simple bike parts like bar end weights. Damascus bar end weights would be cool and easy as they are just round ,chamfered piece of steel ,tapped to screw on the bar.

The cheapest/smallest new new lathe on the market and the best value in a used one would be nice to know? I would have loved to go to the Camillus auction where they sold off all the tooling and machines and stock from a 120 year old company with a HUGE premises that never threw anything out and had tons of military contracts in WW1 and WW2. I know they can't make the 11+ inch blade becker machete because the equipment big enough does not exist anymore.

Actually if you are into lathes and knives you will want to check out the Chris Reeve A2
hollow handle knives. They are a single A2 billet put on a lathe and made into a 1 piece knife then heat treated. The handles are nicely knurled and tapped so the pommel can be screwed on. It also has a very nice guncoat. They have to remove a LOT of A2 to get a knife but it is a very nice finished product and pretty cheap really for what you are getting. I think i just talked myself into buying one.
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I bought one of them Chinese Lathes off ebay for like $400 Speedway series 400 Watt little guy.
I like it have used it hard for two years without any issiues.
HSS is the way to go. i bought some carbide ones but they Chip the tips to easy.
Im no expert at all just Hobby stuff but ya dont need a $2000 investment to make small items like Cylinder pins ect.
A Hobby milling machine was the best thing i ever bought tho paid $700 on sale at the Houseof tools.
Its a Milling and Drill press all in one. i just love useing it. :)
 
Big JD-From the hills said:
Any more info on the D shape would be helpfull(ie, does it need to be hollow ground?. I have a magnetic base and dial gage also, micrometers ect, for engine related measuring
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I make them with an integral pilot that is about .001" under bore diameter and about 1" long. The shell neck portion of the chamber should be about .004" over cartridge diameter and the rest about .001" over. Important to harden the bits spinning then draw to straw to brown in colour and keep cool while grinding. I leave the bits about .010" greater than 1/2 thickness which allows them to be sharpened if necessary on future projects.
Almost forgot; the bits are center drilled at the back so they can be pushed by the tail stock and the barrel is held by the muzzle in the chuck and the breach in a steady rest so that the bit is "floating between the pilot in the bore and the hopefully centered tail stock.
The reason that I use 1/4" or 5/16" bits is that I can get them closer to the center in the tail stock although you can also grind a larger bit to do the same thing. I do use carbide bits when necessary but much prefer HSS for most jobs. I would also echo the convenience of a turret head or a quick change head for your tool bits. My lathe is a Myford super 7 should you be wondering and I use it for home projects.

cheers mooncoon


DBitReamers.jpg
 
busy bee sells a 3/8 insert kit for cheap but take my advice and throw the threading one away. the nature of carbide means a sharp point on carbide will snap off and the provided inserts have a radius on the three corner angles, so they are no good for threading especially fine threads. but the turning and facing ones work great.
screw the shimming get a quick change tool post and then you can adjust the height with the turn of a nut and you can then buy more holders and leave the inserts in the holder for lightning fast tool changes.
ive got four holders one for facing, turning, threading and boring bar.
not exactly cheap but fast and easy.
 
Perhaps worth mentioning the D bits above show some evolution in my methods. The first one or two I made with a short replaceable pilot to allow for different bore dimensions; that is a poor idea because the pilot does not accurately center itself in the reamer. Also a long pilot is a little more effective than a short one. I also filed some of my first D bits to dimension after rough grinding and hardened after filing; that has a very high risk of warping. I currently grind the D to final dimension.

cheers mooncoon
 
sunray said:
"...will probably need is a 6 jaw chuck..." For what? Your 4 jaw will do nicely for any precision firearm related job..
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for think walled material, problably 37mm launcher type stuff.

So what should I do for a parting tool?

Thanks for the tips so far guys, looks like I will stick to hSS for now, and spend some time at the grinder. I have a 4 place turret holder, but the quick change tool post would be the cat's ass

Are there any books that cover the principals of basic gunsmith lathe work like crowning, threading and fitting bbls ect ect? Is there any books out there that would be more geared towards turning on these import lathes?

One of my first projects will probably be a 7.62X39mm bbl, or 45lc bbl for an Enfield. Also need to get a savage action and play around with that.

Mooncoon, thanks for all the info on the D bits, I will try to order up some o1 next week, although I think I will use my propane forge for heat treating, as I can controll the temps realy well. I find that heat treating with the torch sometimes leads to warping just cause the steel isn't in an even state.

As soon as I feel I am competent with this lathe I will be hunting for a mill thats for sure.

Unsub, I would spring for atleast a 12x36, or the mini just to see if your going to have an interest in it.
 
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"...4 place turret holder..." That'll do nicely. Just get tool holders to fit it. Most likely nearly any holder will do.
"...So what should I do for a parting tool?..." You can make them too, but Busy Bee sells 'em as well. Busy Bee is the only place that comes to mind(well the name that I could remember). There should be a machine shop supply place where you are too. Look in the Yellow Pages.
"...need to get a Savage action..." Buy a beat up milsurp rifle to play with. Any one will do, but it'd be best to get one in a chambering that's easy to get headspace guages, thread pitches, etc. for. Perferably one that uses American threads. No square or metric threads.
"...think walled material..." Collet chuck. Tubing is what they're for. You already have just about everything else so buying a collet chuck won't be as big a deal as it would if you were buying a bunch of kit. A collet for a 37mm barrel diameter might be an issue though.
"...Are there any books..." Yep, but it's really hard to learn machining from a book. Go to Brownell's site then into 'Instructional Materials'. Then look for the book/video on Amazon.ca. $7.95US for a South Bend Lathe Works, 'How to run a lathe'.
Don't know why, but a lot of the assorted, relatively inexpensive, supply shops ignore Sask. There's a chain of metal supply shops called The Metal Supermarkets(bar stock, etc) in Ontario, Alberta and BC, but not in Sask. Princess Auto doesn't though. Lots of good machining stuff in there. They ship too.
 
Big JD-From the hills said:
although I think I will use my propane forge for heat treating, as I can controll the temps realy well. I find that heat treating with the torch sometimes leads to warping just cause the steel isn't in an even state.
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I think you mis undererstand what causes warping. If you quench a long rod on a slight diagonal, the down side cools and shrinks faster than the up side. The upper and hot flexible side then stretches until it hits the water. At that point the metal cannot shrink back straight because the first side to cool has already lost its flexibility. If you quench spinning, more or less all sides cool equally and shrink equally. More or less warping is not caused by the heating but by the rapid cooling during the quenching and hardening.
I have not had any problems with warping by quenching spinning. I do my heating with an oxy propane torch.

cheers mooncoon
 
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You must be talking about water quenching w1 drill rod then? Yeah I can see some warping with that.

Yeah the 6 jaw chuck would be in the distant future though, but for other light materials it would be ok. Pluss the spindle bore is too small on mine, its 1.620 I think.

Sunray, saskatchewan is always forgotten, especially the southwest, 4 6 hours round trip away from regina, or saskatoon, medicine hat. But there is hardly anyone out here so its understandable(no business of that type would last).

Realy wish we had a sorce for budged bbl blanks in canada for beginners. Guess I should be looking for takeoff's that I can either cut back thread and chamber.
 
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Big JD-From the hills said:
....Are there any books that cover the principals of basic gunsmith lathe work like crowning, threading and fitting bbls ect ect? Is there any books out there that would be more geared towards turning on these import lathes?......
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A lathe is a lathe is a lathe is a...... There's no books on specific lathes but there are books on lathe use that are geared more towards the home machinist than to large shop production. And the primary book that I found of this sort is the Sparey book I mentioned in my previous post. Don't let the old Myford in that book put you off. The techniques are sound and the only other part that will make you giggle a bit is the section on the all shaped forged lathe tools. Just skip that bit and learn to sharpen the square tool bits.
 
So I decided to drain the oils, and popped the top cover off the headstock, everything looks ok, there was(fixed it) one detent on a speed range that wasn't quite drilled right(wasn't letting it engage the gear all the way), but other than that everything seems to be working ok. I am just going to refill it with trans hydraulic oil. Anyone ever sorce out some actual way oil, or have a proven suitable substitute? Some of the bearings on the back gears are actually NTN bearings, I was surprised. Hopefully the spindle bearings are the same.
 
Because there's some significant pressure on the bearings during some operations such as knurling I'd suggest either a proper oil or else at least a synthetic motor oil like Mobil 1. You don't want it too thick or it piles up in the bearings at higher speeds but on the other hand you want something that is intended for treating bearings under fairly high load pressures.

For way oil I've been using the thicker form of chain saw bar oil that has a dollop of STP or the Lucas Oil equivalent from Lordco. It lasts for a good 20 to 30 travels of the tail stock back and forth before I start noticing it gettting a touch drag'y.

The bed wipers on many of the import lathes suck terribly. You may want to make your own up. I did mine as per the old style felt wipers with steel compression caps and they seem to be working well after some 20 years of hobby use. I got the thick felt to use from a set of boot liners and made up the caps from 1/8 steel sized so they clear the bed by about 1/16 inch all around.
 
Trans hydraulic is put into hydrostatic and transmition systems, when pumpability and gear protection are needed If its good for 2000ftlbs at 2000rpm(tractors, combines ect) I think it should work in here. Its not like 80w 90 gear oil, more like between 30w engine oil and atf, but with lots of additives for anti wear.
 
Just like to say that the D style reamers work just awsome! I used some w1 drill rod, and it cut surprisingly fast and easy. I only had a stubby wrench on the reamer and I didn't have to force it at all(some old scrap bbl). For some reason i have it in my head to make my own chambering, kind of a low noise/disturbance round. I am starting with a .223 case trimmed down to 1", then putting a 30cal neck on it. of coarse I had to make a necking/ sizing die, also incorporated a headspace/chamber checker into a die.
 
Carbide tooling (inserts and brazed) needs to be run at 2000 rpm and higher. I would love to use the carbide inserts, but my 2 old Southbends would never handle that speed. Hand-ground HSS works great, though, especially since I picked up an Aloris-type QC toolpost and 20 holders. (saves time setting and shimming bits)
 
89diesel said:
Carbide tooling (inserts and brazed) needs to be run at 2000 rpm and higher. I would love to use the carbide inserts, but my 2 old Southbends would never handle that speed. Hand-ground HSS works great, though, especially since I picked up an Aloris-type QC toolpost and 20 holders. (saves time setting and shimming bits)
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Not correct. About the "need" to run carbide fast.

There are all sorts of carbide tools out there, in grades that work very well at low surface speeds, as well as for interrupted cuts. Once you get a decent idea what you need to be able to do, grab some catalogs (KBC, and Thomas Skinner would be the first two I would suggest) and get sorted out on what grades do what best, as well as what geometry and possibly, coatings, works for what you need.
Getting hold of some of the application guides frm the actual makers of the inserts can be quite educational, when you see the range of speeds and feeds that they feel are appropriate for their tooling.

Then see what you can find for cheap online!

$2 per insert on Fleabay beats heck out of $20 and up.

Carbide has come a long way from the days when you could not consider it unless your lathe could hold up to huge heavy cuts all day long.

HSS bits are great though. You can make any tool you may need from them.

Both HSS and carbide have a place in a home shop. I usually suggest sticking to HSS until there is a decent amount of confidence in ones own abilities, then working carbide tools into the mix. Carbide is far from forgiving to being bumped against the work or from stopping the work while the tool is in contact. $$$

And remember that the speed and feed charts like in Machinery's Handbook) are meant to give a suggested range where the best balance of production vs. costs (wages, shop rent, etc) were to be had. In a home shop, or gunsmithing operation, it's not all about production, usually, so the machines can run a lot slower. The tools last longer, too.

A quick change tool post that offers an easy to use height adjustment is a good thing, too.

Cheers
Trev
 
since the original post somewhat dealt with chambering and threading operations, I think these operations are best done with HSS tools. I would not want to risk breaking the tip off of a carbide threading bit in the middle of an operation and while I know people who are capable of boring a chamber with a boring bit/bar, I think for myself and for most amatures, chambering with reamers of some descript is far safer.
I do use carbide bit but only for outside turning and even then avoid them if I can do the same thing with a HSS bit

cheers mooncoon
 
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