So pissed off, ruined my rifle......*UPDATE*

The best way to get stuck guard screws out is to not get them stuck in the first place. Release agent is all well and good, but doesn't even compare to putting grease on the threads and body of the screw. After a few hours loosen them a quarter turn and tighten again. The same grease on the inside of the action around the action lugs will take care of any bedding compound that makes it through the action hole.
 
Update

So the nightmare is over... I just sent my barrel, action, and bolt to ATRS. Can't wait to see what its guna look like when there done with it, Heres what they are doing...

1. McMillan Fully Loaded A5 (Black) :dancingbanana:
2. Pillar Bedding Job
3. New tuned X-Mark Trigger
4. Badger Bolt Knob

I hope to get her back late next week but we'll see how it goes, I know there super busy. I'll post some pics after shes done. I figure after this, all thats left to do is a mag system, but we'll wait till later ;) Thanks again for all your help guys, I'm sure I'll try bedding a rifle again down the road, but for now I'll leave it to the pro's...
 
Sounds like a nice build!

Just curious, but why are you bothering to pillar bed one of the finest stocks money can buy?
 
Maxima chain wax, light coats, get it on the action bolts, even spray inside the action/tang where the bolts go. let dry before mixing glass. then carry on
Bedding is not the area of concern, its not having any torque on the action, and no contact at the back(split stock) or sides, just the bottom , sleeves for the bolts can be bedded into the stock.
 
Any time screws are squeezing on anything that's not metal, i.e. stock material, then it will benefit from pillars. If you're deforming/compressing stock material, which you are if you don't have pillars, there are gains to be had by taking that deformation/compression out of the equation. And you do that by adding pillars. Any given gun may already be accurate enough for any given owner without having pillars, but that doesn't mean that pillars wouldn't do anything for that gun.
guntech said:
That McMillan stock does not need pillars... not many stocks need pillars... not many stocks will benefit from pillars...
Click to expand...
 
Piller bedding is considered by the best, to be the best way to bed an action into a stock. The extra few minutes and bit of material involved is worth it in my opinion. No sense NOT doing a job properly.
This prevents any possibility of stock crush as well as ensures that the torque on the bottom metal screws remains constant.
Applying torque to a material that is not 100% rigid is not as effective as applying torque to 3 objects that are ALL of similar structure.

The aluminum bedding blocks found in some stocks preclude the need for pillers. McMillan does not have bedding blocks in their stocks, so piller bedding is the best way to bed the barrelled action to the stock.
 
I will bet if you take two McMillan A5 stocks and do a good job of glass bedding a .308 barreled action into one stock and then do a good job of pillar bedding the same barreled action into the second stock you will see no difference in accuracy between those stocks. Just tighten the screws good and snug... you don't need to torque them with a big driver...

Everyone rants about pillar bedding... it is not a cure all. It will be a benefit in some cases but it is more important that it be done right rather than just done with pillars. I have seen home installed pillars and the bedding job was terrible...

If you want pillars have it done professionally.
 
I like how you avoided the bedding block question.

Anyway, the point of any bedding, glass bedding the action or putting pillars in, is to minimize or eliminate movement between the action and the stock, is it not? Frankly, I don't think any job should be a choice of one or the other, and you should do both. You want the action to be cradled in there perfectly. You want the torque from tightening the screws down to be acting upon relatively stable metal, not relatively unstable wood or composite material. Both conditions should be met, accomplished by doing both jobs.

If you don't have pillars, you have compression of stock material, period. You tighten down those screws against wood or composite material and there is going to be some amount of deformation/compression, no matter how little. This is eliminated by putting metal in its place. I'm not here trying to say that without pillars your rifle is going to shoot horribly, and that with pillars it'll put them into one hole at 2000 yards. I'm saying that without pillars there is deformation/compression, which is undesirable, and easily avoided by the installation of pillars. Even a measily 20-25 inch-pounds on action screws is going to compress walnut some. And any compression or deformation at all is going to be an avenue for movement. You want a nice solid rifle. If you're going to half-ass it, why bother doing anything to it at all? Would you perfect the body work on your hot rod, only to skip primer and go straight to the colour paint? Why not? You won't see the primer.
guntech said:
I will bet if you take two McMillan A5 stocks and do a good job of glass bedding a .308 barreled action into one stock and then do a good job of pillar bedding the same barreled action into the second stock you will see no difference in accuracy between those stocks. Just tighten the screws good and snug... you don't need to torque them with a big driver...

Everyone rants about pillar bedding... it is not a cure all. It will be a benefit in some cases but it is more important that it be done right rather than just done with pillars. I have seen home installed pillars and the bedding job was terrible...

If you want pillars have it done professionally.
Click to expand...
 
_Shorty said:
Do any/all of these bedding blocks have portions that extend all the way through the stock to the bottom metal, just as pillars do?
Click to expand...

Not the HS, but some stocks (like the AICS) are solid aluminum blocks.
I saw a test done where some of new production USMC sniper rifles were stripped of their McMillan and installed in HS stocks. They lost on average 1/4MOA....The V-Block is a nice tactical idea, but does not typically allow a barreled action to produce its full accuracy potential.

I should mention that I find your cavalier comments directed toward Dennis (Guntech) short sighted and in poor taste.
Dennis doesn't do anything half-assed...Both the way his rifles consistently shoot and the excellent finished product he always delivers are a tribute to his quality and understanding of the rifle as a system.
That he wont sell you something he believes you don't need is a tribute to his ethics. In over 20 years of doing business with Dennis he has never delivered my a sub standard product.

You might consider why a gunsmith that Rick respects is of this alternate opinion?.....I wonder what your qualifications are that you feel you can instruct a veteran expert in his respective field on how he should carry out his profession?
Careful how you shoot your mouth off...You are way over your head and are embarrassing yourself here.

No disrespect to Ricks opinion. And I would like to add that when he builds me a rifle I will let him build it the way he feels delivers the best accuracy.
 
I'd hardly call reminding someone of the reasoning behind pillars as instructing them how to conduct their business and carry out their trade. I'm well aware of who Dennis is and what he does. As I said, if you're going to glass bed the action to allow it to be cradled in the stock, which is to avoid movement in the stock, then you might as well put pillars in to avoid another source of movement. Why address one source of movement and completely ignore a second? Because that second source of movement does indeed exist. The degree to which it rears its head can most certainly be less drastic than what the glass bedding solves, but that doesn't mean it's worth ignoring.

And I'm sure Dennis can speak for himself. I'm not sure why you feel the need to jump to his defense. Surely he doesn't need you to. I'm not shooting my mouth off. I'm having a conversation. If you actually have an honest opinion about the topic of discussion, feel free to join it. Your little outburst added nothing to the conversation. And I'm not embarrassed in the least.
 
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