So this just happened-- Game over man >.<

Merovingian

Merovingian

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Norinco M305 bolt failure :(

Hello fellow nuts. I went up to the local range this morning sighting in a new scope on my Blackfeather Norinco M305. The rifle is a recent new build and has precisely 148 rounds of 308 win through it. I've only fed it Federal SMK 168's and have had zero issues up till now. The rifle has shot like a champ, 1 - 1.5 moa which i was pretty pleased with. Never had a FTF or FTE till today, had a FTE when the bolt cracked.

Any ideas on what would cause something like this?
Is pushing 168's too rough on the internals or did I just get an unlucky Chinese bolt? Factory loaded Federal SMK 168gr
I have inspected inside the receiver and everything looks pretty normal and it seems the bolt was the only thing damaged.
The casing of the last round fired before the failure looked really good and just like every other round fired before it. There was no unusual sound or feeling on the last round fired either.

I will be getting a hold of the awesome gunsmith :) that helped me build it but im still curious on the cause of something like this.

Anywho just wondering what some of your opinions might be on why the bolt failed like this.

Thanks again :)


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The most I've ever put through mine was 147gr Norinco or 148gr Austrian surplus. I'd read going heavier can risk damage but never read into what exactly it could entail.
 
Bartok5 said:
Nice looking rifle, but still Chinese metallurgy. You would likely have avoided that particular failure with a USGI M14 bolt.
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Thanks :) Yep that's the next step hopefully. Sending an email off to my gunsmith and see what that would involve. I'm guessing a new bolt could be matched to the existing barrel, wait to see what they say.
 
lerch641 said:
The most I've ever put through mine was 147gr Norinco or 148gr Austrian surplus. I'd read going heavier can risk damage but never read into what exactly it could entail.
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Ive been told alot of guys like the 147-150gr but have also run into a bunch of folks who prefer the 168's too. I was told by a few smiths that over 168 gets alot more taxing on the parts.
 
A replacement USGI bolt ought to drop right in and correctly headspace, but to be sure I'd either confirm with a set of "Go" / "No Go" gauges or have your gunsmith check the headspace. Better safe than sorry, especially after that initial failure!
 
Wasn't there an issue with bolt rollers slamming into the receiver when closing into full battery causing huge stress on the bolt and eventual failure? Check the stickies I seem to remember reading something like that and that could have caused your failure.
 
Bartok5 said:
A replacement USGI bolt ought to drop right in and correctly headspace, but to be sure I'd either confirm with a set of "Go" / "No Go" gauges or have your gunsmith check the headspace. Better safe than sorry, especially after that initial failure!
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Well that's encouraging :)
 
Chinese M14's typically do not suffer from bolt roller impact, that is more typically seen on Springfield Armory Inc. M1A rifles. USGI or one of the recently made USA commercial bolts should work, however they are never "drop in". Firing pin protrusion and retraction as well as Bolt lug contact needs to be confirmed. Typically some lapping is required to confirm lug contact, and of course headspace must be confirmed as well. USGI as well as USA Commercial bolts can fail the same as yours did. A M14 should be able to handle factory or commercial loaded 168 Grain projectiles with ease.
 
I defer to workerunit on this one, OP. My knowledge of the various breeds of M14 / M1A is limited to owning an original prohibited "converted-auto" 12(3) USGI TRW-brand rifle that the "powers who be" have not let me discharge for 12 years now, and counting. The whole idea behind having mil-spec USGI firearms and parts is that the parts do indeed, simply drop-in with the correct specifications and performance from one firearm to the next. That said, putting USGI parts in a Chinese version of the M14 could very well have less than ideal results without first checking all of the relevant indicators of correct fit and function, including headspace. M14s are known to be somewhat "finicky" battle rifles as it is. Be sure to carefully follow workerunit's advice in conjunction with your 'smith to be on the safe side. As things go, you are lucky that the broken bolt incident didn't result in injury to either yourself or a nearby onlooker.
 
Glad you are ok. A new bolt is for sure and don't forget to pm tactical teacher I m sure he has some ideas you may find helpful.
I bet the receiver is fine, and I think 162 is a bit heavy for this rifle. And remember usgi or sf bolts are NOT better bolts. They are produced with only one goal:money saving for them, not you.
 
Jmiverson said:
168gr SMKs are typically fine in M305s. May I ask what powder, primers, and brass you were loading with?
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I was not using reloads, Factory Federal 168grn SMK 2550fps muzzel. I plan to get into reloading soon on a single stage but for now my shooting exp. is only with factory loaded ammo
 
workerunit said:
Chinese M14's typically do not suffer from bolt roller impact, that is more typically seen on Springfield Armory Inc. M1A rifles. USGI or one of the recently made USA commercial bolts should work, however they are never "drop in". Firing pin protrusion and retraction as well as Bolt lug contact needs to be confirmed. Typically some lapping is required to confirm lug contact, and of course headspace must be confirmed as well. USGI as well as USA Commercial bolts can fail the same as yours did. A M14 should be able to handle factory or commercial loaded 168 Grain projectiles with ease.
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Thanks for the info
 
168gr should be fine, it depends more on the powder you're using if it will be hard on it. A powder around the same burn rate as H4895 should be good and seems to be what most recommend. I use Varget and 168's in mine without issues. The M14 is not as sensitive as a Garand but any semi will cycle better with a powder slightly slow for the projectile weight to keep things cycling smoothly. Check out the service rifle data available, my Hornady manual has a whole section devoted to service rifle loads.

With that few of rounds through it I'm going to say your issue is more just a case of bad luck and getting a bolt that had a flaw in it. Check the EE for a new bolt. Lot's of guys put thousands through their Norinco bolt without failure so I wouldn't get too carried away with an expensive one unless you have bigger plans for the rifle in the future.

One of my M14's has a Fulton Armoury bolt but it also has a Krieger barrel and I bought it already built, I probably wouldn't have upgraded it until the original failed. The bolt won't make it shoot any better so big bucks can be spent more effectively if the rifle is going to remain relatively original other than a chassis.

Edit:
Just read the posts that popped up while I was typing, factory Federal 168 should have been fine. Just a bad bolt from the factory, find another, have it fitted by someone who knows M14's and get back out there and have fun.
 
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