So, What's a good group size?

Just my rule of thumb for what shooters should strive for, nothing but my own opinions here.

First time shooter- If they can keep it on a standard sheet of printer paper, they are doing well.

Regular shooter- They should be able to keep a 5-6" group while firing deliberately at 15 meters.

Experienced shooter- They should be ably to keep a 2-3" group or tighter with the same conditions as above.

Expert shooter- They should be able to call out either the left or right testicle and shoot it off a moving fly from 40 meters while looking through a mirror to aim the gun, after eating a bowl of hot pepper sauce.
 
Well I did just have a burrito and tortilla soup. So do I get extra points?

BTW, you guys are very helpful. Anyone know an experienced pistol shooter here in the S2S area?
 
BCRider said:
A good group at 10 yards would be just a little bigger than the quarter you used for reference. Not ragging on you, just sayin'.

A couple of hints if I may. First off lose the gloves. Unless you're wearing them because it's freakin' cold out ditch them and shoot bare handed so you can both feel the grip on your gun better as well as breaking any link between your trigger finger moving and the motion affecting the rest of your hand. Later on when you are shooting quarter size groups you can try the gloves again and see if they make any difference.

Second work on a follow through with your trigger finger. When you pull the trigger don't snatch at it. Just build pressure on the trigger and let it move where and when it wants. Don't try to force the movement. And don't pull to the BANG! then let go. Follow through the BANG! by holding the trigger back through the recoil. Your finger should still be back when the gun has settled down again. Then with the same care ease up on the pressure and let the trigger return spring push your finger back forward. Feel for the reset click. When you feel that you can stop the release of pressure and go back to a build up of pressure.

Pulling the trigger this way and focusing on pulling smoothly through to the rear trigger travel stop instead of to the BANG! really helps you to stop any flinch you may have.

Also ease up your grip to the sort of pressure you'd use for a firm but friendly handshake. If you hold too hard it becomes difficult to isolate your trigger finger from the other fingers moving as well in sympathy. If in doubt ease up the pressure until the gun moves around in your hands with every shot. Then up the pressure to where it just stops moving around. Add a little more pressure than that and you're there.
Click to expand...

This is good advise, well said might I add! Follow it and your groups will shrink.
 
There is some great stuff on You Tube. One of my favourites is;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDZDttBfock

I'm pretty sure that shooting faster with accuracy came about from participating in speed related matches. When just standing and shooting targets for amusement there's too much time to think about it and develop a flinch. But when the timer goes off the focus is about getting and holding the sight picture and the BANG! of the gun almost seems to fade into the background.

It's a ##### of a drive to come down from the top end of the S2S but next summer I'd suggest you sacrifice some gas to make the trip down for a few of the lower pressure competitions. Abbotsford has the Steel Challenge event and Mission holds a Speed Steel event once a month. I'm embarrassed to say that I have not yet attended one of Abbotsford's events but I've shot the Mission one regularly. Either would be great fun and I think you'll find that altering your focus in a way that suits the need for speed does change how you shoot your handgun.

To get a feel for what it's about check out "steel challenge" on you tube. In particular the ones that use the hat cam's to get the shooter's perspective.
 
^Really good point BC.
I'm all about defensive style shooting because it's fun for me, but shooting a steel challenge match last year did wonders for my speed.

You shoot the same series 5 times in a row so you really get to work on your shooting, albeit for just a few seconds at a time, but it is good training.
 
Well I'll try some competitive events if I can. In the meantime I decided that at $230-250 for a case of 9mm I'd better find a way to shoot cheaper. So I picked this up today.

1911 GSG .22LR

1480662_10151853726006235_3523052_n.jpg
 
I'd say for the majority of the people on cgn (when shooting a pistol), the group sizes corresponding to the distance is good.

3 meters - 3 inches
7 meters - 7 inches
15 meters - 15 inches

And so on.
 
You're going to love that GSG. I don't have one but when I've gotten a chance to try them the gun was slick and crisp and shot great groups. I suspect it won't hold groups like a S&W 41 or other higher end target pistol but it's easily a match for any other more mainstream rimfire handgun including the Ruger Mk series and Browning Buckmark.

I find that rimfire handguns are also great for helping the shooter to focus on a smooth trigger finger motion and proper follow through as I described above. So they are superb for working on banishing a flinch.

If you make it down for either club's steel matches you'll also enjoy the frugality of the GSG. A perfect no miss round count for a match is 150. And with misses to be made up this climbs quickly until you get the hang of it... :D And the matches at Mission are doubled with one set before and the other after lunch. So even with NO MISSES (which simply never happens) you're looking at 300 rounds. And realistically more like 350 even for the better accuracy shooters. That's a pretty big ammo bill for the day. So many of us shoot rimfire for one match and center fire for the other to help hold the cost down while still having a heap of fun.

Oh, in prep for joining the fun with your handguns you'll want to look at getting some more magazines. Two is OK for a first time or two but really you want to have 4 at a minimum if you're going to use your handguns in any sort of match.

You'll also want to get a basic holster to carry your guns around during such matches. It doesn't need to be anything you speed draw from. It's just for a place to park your pistol between stages. A nice workable holster that holds just about any gun I've got is an Uncle Mike's model #18. It's intended for a revolver but I found that it neatly holds a wide range of semi auto pistols from my almost dainty sized S&W 422 rimfire gun to 1911's and even my big N frame revolver. The best $18 you'll spend on any gun accessory.
 
BCRider said:
You're going to love that GSG. I don't have one but when I've gotten a chance to try them the gun was slick and crisp and shot great groups. I suspect it won't hold groups like a S&W 41 or other higher end target pistol but it's easily a match for any other more mainstream rimfire handgun including the Ruger Mk series and Browning Buckmark.

I find that rimfire handguns are also great for helping the shooter to focus on a smooth trigger finger motion and proper follow through as I described above. So they are superb for working on banishing a flinch.

If you make it down for either club's steel matches you'll also enjoy the frugality of the GSG. A perfect no miss round count for a match is 150. And with misses to be made up this climbs quickly until you get the hang of it... :D And the matches at Mission are doubled with one set before and the other after lunch. So even with NO MISSES (which simply never happens) you're looking at 300 rounds. And realistically more like 350 even for the better accuracy shooters. That's a pretty big ammo bill for the day. So many of us shoot rimfire for one match and center fire for the other to help hold the cost down while still having a heap of fun.

Oh, in prep for joining the fun with your handguns you'll want to look at getting some more magazines. Two is OK for a first time or two but really you want to have 4 at a minimum if you're going to use your handguns in any sort of match.

You'll also want to get a basic holster to carry your guns around during such matches. It doesn't need to be anything you speed draw from. It's just for a place to park your pistol between stages. A nice workable holster that holds just about any gun I've got is an Uncle Mike's model #18. It's intended for a revolver but I found that it neatly holds a wide range of semi auto pistols from my almost dainty sized S&W 422 rimfire gun to 1911's and even my big N frame revolver. The best $18 you'll spend on any gun accessory.
Click to expand...

Well I guess I'm doing well for accessories then! I don't have the GSG yet, but I have a 1911 blackhawk holster which wouldn't be great for speed draw but will do the trick for now, and a good holster for the P30L. I only have 2 mags for the GSG and 3 for the HK. at $90 the HK ones are pricey, but I'll look at getting another one. The GSG ones are cheap. I'll pick up a couple more when I get the gun. Love the guys at Reliable too, they've been very helpful.

heading down to the range this afternoon. I'll be working on what you guys have told me. I'll look out for you as well BCRider if I make it down to the 'wack. We may even know each other if you were in the motorbike community.
 
My rule of thumb-

If a 10 round group shot at 12-15 meters is smaller than my fist, I'm shooting too slow. Unless, of course, I'm going for accuracy. Then, I would hope for a grouping in the 1.5-2" range from the same distance.

Paul
 
What I like... and some hate... is those shooting cubes (yellow/orange self sealing 3d targets) they're about 4-5 inches each side... and roll when hit. It's a small enough target to practice marksmenship, and after hit it moves so good to track targets/fast follow up shots. (And good for any caliber)

Just my 2 cents.
 
Well my 10 round groups shrank today a bit. Maybe down to 3 -4 inches, never more than 5. So I'd say I shrank my groups to 2/3 the size they were in the pics, I didn't measure or take pics. Probably should have. Only threw 100 down the pipe. But it felt good. I think I need to work on my patience and trigger pull. Grip is good, squared off today, just feel I'm rushing and pointing like in trap and not aiming.
 
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