So whos buying a CZ Bren 2 MS ? Its non res !

Bartok5 said:
With Registry #2 in full effect, the NR Bren 2s available for pre-sale are going to be assigned to each buyer on a personal basis in store records that the police can readily access "with cause" when they finally arrive in the Fall. Seems to me that that aside from being able to take the gun into the woods (which I cannot physically do anyways), there is little practical difference nowadays between NR and Restricted. So I wonder why folks are still waiting for the long-barrelled version rather than buying a Restricted version with the factory correct 14" or 11" Barrel length that they can have in-hand by month's end? The buyers of Restricted versions will get to enjoy an entire shooting season with their Bren 2s that those waiting on a NR version are going to miss out on.

I wonder if most or even many pre-sale buyers of the NR Bren 2s have fully considered the implications of our "new reality" yet?
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Actually there is a very big difference.

A restricted firearm's existence is technically owned by the state and can be recalled, "bought back", confiscated or grandfathered into oblivion. A non-restricted, even "traced" cannot. I mean, the state can try to take it back but they would need to stick to the letter of the law on their end whereas we can tell em to stick it (if you so desire). Many firearms during the LGR didn't get registered, myself included. This time will be no different.

Hopefully within a few months so many gunnies will have open transfer files with other gunnies the possibility of tracing anything past one person will be nigh impossible. The gov will know you purchased a particular firearm at a specific date but after that, good luck. Just make sure you start lots of transfers to obfuscate the provenance. Individual transfers don't mention what firearm or how many may or may not get transferred.

Now, when the hypothetical police come a knocking for the "registered-not-registered" firearm you bought years ago all you need to say is "I don't know where it is." It will be up to the crown to determine if a crime has been committed. As long as you keep your mouth shut about what may or may not have happened to the firearm, there's nothing they can charge you with.
Maybe you sold it. Maybe you destroyed it. Maybe you tossed it in the ocean.

Basically, I'm not gonna change my buying habits.


*Armchair internet lawyer off*
 
Bartok5 said:
Not true. A business transfer records all firearm details as welll as the buyer info. A private transfer does not include firearms details.
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False the store enters no firearms info...they have to keep said info as part of their records. And really most with an advanced POS system already do.
 
Karnage said:
Actually there is a very big difference.

A restricted firearm's existence is technically owned by the state and can be recalled, "bought back", confiscated or grandfathered into oblivion. A non-restricted, even "traced" cannot. I mean, the state can try to take it back but they would need to stick to the letter of the law on their end whereas we can tell em to stick it (if you so desire). Many firearms during the LGR didn't get registered, myself included. This time will be no different.

Hopefully within a few months so many gunnies will have open transfer files with other gunnies the possibility of tracing anything past one person will be nigh impossible. The gov will know you purchased a particular firearm at a specific date but after that, good luck. Just make sure you start lots of transfers to obfuscate the provenance. Individual transfers don't mention what firearm or how many may or may not get transferred.

Now, when the hypothetical police come a knocking for the "registered-not-registered" firearm you bought years ago all you need to say is "I don't know where it is." It will be up to the crown to determine if a crime has been committed. As long as you keep your mouth shut about what may or may not have happened to the firearm, there's nothing they can charge you with.
Maybe you sold it. Maybe you destroyed it. Maybe you tossed it in the ocean.

Basically, I'm not gonna change my buying habits.


*Armchair internet lawyer off*
Click to expand...

Remember, that when it comes to prosecuting legal gun owners, money is no object...your conviction and jail time is their goal.
Or at the very least, draining all of your savings on lawyers to beat any of their idiotic charges.
So even if you win, you still lost.

If they come looking for a firearm that you bought new from a retailer post May/18-th and you tell them that you don't know where it is, their records will show them how many transfer numbers you opened up.

Chances are, that after making few threatening phone calls, they will have everything they need, including what colour of shoes you wore on the day of this transaction.

Should there be no refference number on their file, you will likely have some explaining to do downtown, not excluding a house search and/or charging you with unsafe storage at the very least.
 
cptseawolf said:
False the store enters no firearms info...they have to keep said info as part of their records. And really most with an advanced POS system already do.
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What's stopping them from making another order telling stores to submit all purchases from the 18th onwards in a standard format to RCMP or CFOs?
Boom. Overnight, not a registry, registry.
Like others have said. There are two classes of non-restricted firearms in Canada. Pre and post May18th. All the pre-May 18th are unicorns.
 
1895GS said:
What's stopping them from making another order telling stores to submit all purchases from the 18th onwards in a standard format to RCMP or CFOs?
Boom. Overnight, not a registry, registry.
Like others have said. There are two classes of non-restricted firearms in Canada. Pre and post May18th. All the pre-May 18th are unicorns.
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There is absolutelly nothing stopping them from doing any of that.
Right now it was all about getting their foot in the door with as little fanfare as possible.
From here they have many options.

Within the next 2 years, they will most likely introduce modifications, such as model/serial number requirement for private transfers, along with forcing the retailers to grant them unconditional acess to their databases, or requiring them to upload their info into the government's database on scheduled bases.
 
1newgunnut said:
I wish it was all tinfoil hat bs.
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The individuals whom are making these ignorant tinfoil statements are the same people, who will be standing there with their mouths open once the government comes to collect their legally bought firearms.

The ex KGB spy Yuri Bezmenov made some great observations about these people in his famous 80's interview.

No matter how much proof (or common sense) you throw at these people, they will not believe you.
Only when the government jackboot makes physical contact with their anus, then they will believe.

The type of person making these statements rarely bothers to verify, examine or cross refference any information on their own time, outside of the fake news MSM outlets.
But when confronted by any information, that is contrary to the approved narratives, suddenly they are smart as a radio and just as witty..
 
CZ Shooter said:
Remember, that when it comes to prosecuting legal gun owners, money is no object...your conviction and jail time is their goal.
Or at the very least, draining all of your savings on lawyers to beat any of their idiotic charges.
So even if you win, you still lost.

If they come looking for a firearm that you bought new from a retailer post May/18-th and you tell them that you don't know where it is, their records will show them how many transfer numbers you opened up.

Chances are, that after making few threatening phone calls, they will have everything they need, including what colour of shoes you wore on the day of this transaction.

Should there be no refference number on their file, you will likely have some explaining to do downtown, not excluding a house search and/or charging you with unsafe storage at the very least.
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Good points about the lawfare. It is far too common that the actual punishment from the crown is the defense process itself and not the actual potential outcome of the charges.

10 years ago I would have said that their is no way that they could actually charge you for anything if the hypothetical situation mentioned above were to happen. However with the way our legal system has been treating its citizens as of late, especially PAL holders, I am not confident at all in the "innocent before proven guilty...beyond a reasonable doubt" standard that should protect all of us.

IF the cfo/rcmp contacted all of the people the original owner opened up a reference number with and none of them admitted to buying said firearm from the original owner in question, what then? What if one or more of the persons the original owner has a reference number with refuses to say anything? What if two of them say that they might have bought the firearm but cannot be 100% sure? The possibility still remains that the firearm could have been destroyed by the original owner (damaged by fire, cracked/damaged/bent receiver from a squib load, etc) and as far as I am aware, private owners are not required to report the destruction of a NR firearm to the CFO. What if the original owner refuses to show possession of the firearms in question? Will he be subject to trafficking, straw purchasing charges or other charges? Will he merely lose his PAL? It would be circumstantial evidence at best.

IF the original owner has zero reference numbers opened does that mean that the original owner has a legal obligation to prove to the inspector that he is still in possession of the firearm (like we do now with restricted firearms)? This is very important distinction and a very important question that I have not found any clarification on.

Their are many legal questions that are now being raised and we have no legal precedent to go by. We do not know how the crown and the judges will handle these situations but if it is like most of our firearms act, the crown attorneys and judges will try and fumble their way through it and Lord only knows how they will go.
 
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Karnage said:
Actually there is a very big difference.

A restricted firearm's existence is technically owned by the state and can be recalled, "bought back", confiscated or grandfathered into oblivion. A non-restricted, even "traced" cannot. I mean, the state can try to take it back but they would need to stick to the letter of the law on their end whereas we can tell em to stick it (if you so desire). Many firearms during the LGR didn't get registered, myself included. This time will be no different.

Hopefully within a few months so many gunnies will have open transfer files with other gunnies the possibility of tracing anything past one person will be nigh impossible. The gov will know you purchased a particular firearm at a specific date but after that, good luck. Just make sure you start lots of transfers to obfuscate the provenance. Individual transfers don't mention what firearm or how many may or may not get transferred.

Now, when the hypothetical police come a knocking for the "registered-not-registered" firearm you bought years ago all you need to say is "I don't know where it is." It will be up to the crown to determine if a crime has been committed. As long as you keep your mouth shut about what may or may not have happened to the firearm, there's nothing they can charge you with.
Maybe you sold it. Maybe you destroyed it. Maybe you tossed it in the ocean.

Basically, I'm not gonna change my buying habits.


*Armchair internet lawyer off*
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There are non-restricted rifles already on the OIC? Just sayin. They'll do whatever is politically expedient to do, here's a thought though. We all know that our guns are merely low hanging political fruit, we know the Lieberals are telling people they will protect them from the slew of recent carjackings by banning all handguns ('cause who needs a handgun these days, yada yada), but what happens when all guns are gone, and the criminals carry on? Then what are these a$$holes going to blame and target? I think they actually need us, as a political punt ball.
 
Was gonna get one, but not interested in being in the new liberal registry. Sorry importers. Hard pass.
 
Bartok5 said:
Shipping notices for the IRG import ought to be going out this week if they are going to fulfill their end-month delivery promise....
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Ya, I just got my registration certificate in the mail this morning. The anticipation is killing me!
 
Brian46 said:
Anyone weight their bren2 yet? List the configuration you have (stock type and barrel length)
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It's 3kg in 7.62x39 in the 9" configuration with 5/30 mag in the event anyone else was wondering.

It is the first firearm in a long time that I was pleasantly surprised with rather than the usual meh!
 
Where are you guys finding these to actually buy? Restricted ones I mean. Only ones I can find are rdsc and they don't have 16's in stock.
Are these landed yet or just trickling in one at a time?
 
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