So why DA Grizzly?

[Vyrtual]

While I agree with some of what you're saying and certainly see your point, you should maybe pause for a moment and think before getting too high and mighty about people buying Chinese things. I've heard this nonsense a lot and it's in most, if not all cases, merely a perfect example of blatant hypocrisy.
If someone chooses not to buy a certain product from a country, that's their business, but please don't knock others for doing it while you're covered in that countries merchandise. Take a look at the labels on your shirt, pants, socks, skivvies. Take a look and the labels on your food. Take a look at where your car parts are actually made. Take a look at your computer, and where all those parts were made. How about your tv and it's components? Or how about your kids' toys. How about half the gadgets we buy for shooting. The simple fact is, our homes are *filled* with products made all over the world, and yes, from china as well. I just wish people that so quickly denounce anything made in china and talk about how you should be "ashamed" about buying from them would at least not be such hypocrites about it. Because they sure don't seem to mind supporting them a thousand times over with a plethora or other products, but get on their high horse when it comes to firearms. It's as foolish as a vegetarian wearing a leather jacket telling me I shouldn't hunt the "poor animals", and yes, that's happened before as well lol.

The grizzly is a damn solid gun, deal with it.

Buy American and never look back, the North American firearms industry needs the support, puts out better products, and you won't be throwing your money like everyone else in the walmart crowd to a communist country where the citizens can't even own the guns they make.

Canadian firearms owners are sure idealists and politically conscious when it comes to rules and paper. Wave Chinese crap in front of them for the price of a family boston pizza dinner cheaper than American/Canadian and they're all over like a fat kid on a smarty. You asked a good question, and the good answer is buy American. Down the road you can add a Dlask 12.5" barrel if you want; if 300 bucks is too much for an accessory for a guy he has have bigger problems than picking which gun to buy.

Frankly, people should be ashamed to be shooting Chinese knock offs. The disturbing part is few give a sh1t anymore about where what they buy comes from; don't be part of that moral slide. Consider going for a Maverick/Mossberg, no shorter barrels but fantastic guns. Flame suit on, fire away folks.

 

[Ardent]

While I agree with some of what you're saying and certainly see your point, you should maybe pause for a moment and think before getting too high and mighty about people buying Chinese things. I've heard this nonsense a lot and it's in most, if not all cases, merely a perfect example of blatant hypocrisy.
If someone chooses not to buy a certain product from a country, that's their business, but please don't knock others for doing it while you're covered in that countries merchandise. Take a look at the labels on your shirt, pants, socks, skivvies. Take a look and the labels on your food. Take a look at where your car parts are actually made. Take a look at your computer, and where all those parts were made. How about your tv and it's components? Or how about your kids' toys. How about half the gadgets we buy for shooting. The simple fact is, our homes are *filled* with products made all over the world, and yes, from china as well. I just wish people that so quickly denounce anything made in china and talk about how you should be "ashamed" about buying from them would at least not be such hypocrites about it. Because they sure don't seem to mind supporting them a thousand times over with a plethora or other products, but get on their high horse when it comes to firearms. It's as foolish as a vegetarian wearing a leather jacket telling me I shouldn't hunt the "poor animals", and yes, that's happened before as well lol.

The grizzly is a damn solid gun, deal with it.

You clearly missed my next post. Just as you took offense to my statements I take offense to being labeled a bigot when I go to great lengths to be anything but. I pay attention to what I buy, and here's your breakdown:

-My watch is German, with a Swiss movement

-My shirt I'm wearing is Canadian made, from a shop by my inlaws, with American cotton

-My pants are Carhart, made in Mexico with US cotton and rivets (as per the tag)

-My work phone is a Canadian designed Blackberry, my personal an American designed iphone, neither of which or any reasonable alternative is manufactured here.

-My boots are Canadian made

-Socks, Canadian made

-My family are farmers, I don't buy produce from further away than the US, and Canadian first always. If it's not in season, I don't buy it.

-My chronograph (shooting gadget) is a Shooting Chrony, Canadian made, no doubt with some Chinese electronics, but built here.

-My truck is a Ford F150 with an engine made in Windsor Ontario, the rest was assembled in Deerborne. Many Asian electrical and small components, overall supports Canadian and American jobs hugely however.

-Our plates and flatware are English, our cooking bowls American pyrex, our kitchen knives German

-We didn't have a TV until recently, it's Asian as I'd like you to find me an American or Canadian made one, I'll find you an American or Canadian gun.

We make good guns here, and have no shortage of good choices. Guns from a communist country where the people building them don't even have the freedom to own them are not good choices. "Deal with it."

 

[Vyrtual]

I never called you a bigot, I pointed out that you were being hypocritical, because you were being hypocritical. We all do it, and just because we get called on it, it's not an attack or an implication that we're "bigots" because of it. The fact is you, me and I'd be willing to bet everyone else on this site have *plenty* of products made in china, or made with Chinese parts. And "made in" labels only have to mean "assembled in", as I'm sure you know. There's an interesting documentary about that but I can't remember the name of it. I imagine it'd be easy to find online though.
Regardless, yes I do take offense when someone vocalizes that I should be ashamed for buying outside of Canada (or just china). There are plenty of great weapons made outside of north America, and deciding to own one is fine. But that in no way means you can't also own one made within it. I've got plenty of American made guns, as well as czech, wherever husqvarnas were made lol, German, Russian, and yes, Chinese. That being said, I didnt want to sound overly strident in my response to you, I was just pointing out that it gets real old hearing that stuff.

You clearly missed my next post. Just as you took offense to my statements I take offense to being labeled a bigot when I go to great lengths to be anything but. I pay attention to what I buy, and here's your breakdown:

-My watch is German, with a Swiss movement

-My shirt I'm wearing is Canadian made, from a shop by my inlaws, with American cotton

-My pants are Carhart, made in Mexico with US cotton and rivets (as per the tag)

-My work phone is a Canadian designed Blackberry, my personal an American designed iphone, neither of which or any reasonable alternative is manufactured here.

-My boots are Canadian made

-Socks, Canadian made

-My family are farmers, I don't buy produce from further away than the US, and Canadian first always. If it's not in season, I don't buy it.

-My chronograph (shooting gadget) is a Shooting Chrony, Canadian made, no doubt with some Chinese electronics, but built here.

-My truck is a Ford F150 with an engine made in Windsor Ontario, the rest was assembled in Deerborne. Many Asian electrical and small components, overall supports Canadian and American jobs hugely however.

-We didn't have a TV until recently, it's Asian as I'd like you to find me an American or Canadian made one, I'll find you an American or Canadian gun.

 

[BRS9]

It's all from earth, and earthlings are all equally stupid.

I'll be the first to admit that the whole "it's from China so it must be ####" is more about racism and ignorance than about quality and ethics.

 

[gmctech]

Holy fawk... who gives a sh*t... Buy what ya want and don't mouth off about peoples choices.. EOS. Gawd folks.. calm the fawk down... It's a GLOBAL market now .. Deal with it.
Oh and it's my money so I'll buy whatever sh*ts and giggles stuff i want. I am a conscious consumer, and even with that i feel no remorse for my upcoming purchase from China.. I do my part to support North American Industry on a daily basis.

This a a firearms forum for gun enthusiasts, I don't get on my high horse and start preaching about peoples choices.... I could go on and on about this crap, but lets get back to the topic @ hand.. the DA GRIZZLY!

 

[gmctech]

It's all from earth, and earthlings are all equally stupid.

I'll be the first to admit that the whole "it's from China so it must be s**t" is more about racism and ignorance than about quality and ethics.

I've purchased some extremely high quality items from China... Even some extremely high end electronic devices for use in the automotive industry and am seriously pleased... Oh and i bought there, because this equipment is not manufactured in North America...

 

[gmctech]

Is there a website for the DA Grizzly?

 

[BRS9]

http://www.canadaammo.com/product.php?productid=11&cat=0&page=1

 

[gmctech]

thnx... "BRS9".... Anyone have more behind the scenes information on these? Just trying to find out who really makes it and such, no real reason except curiosity why i wanna know... Like to get my paws on one for an afternoon... No retailors around me have these, but I'd really like to handle one before in commit to buy... (likely will look for one in the EE or firearmscanada, as i said the $ is just too stiff when the 88 comes cheaper to the door than the retail of it)

I will say... i think it looks awesome... and haven't heard of any structural failures like that gawd awful Homeland Security 780... Happy shooting to all you current DA Grizzly owners!

 

[wmd]

All keep buying stuff made in asia if the quality is good and the price is right.

P.S the grizzlys are awsome shotguns and aint chinese junk like someone has stated

 

[Ardent]

I never called you a bigot, I pointed out that you were being hypocritical, because you were being hypocritical. We all do it, and just because we get called on it, it's not an attack or an implication that we're "bigots" because of it. The fact is you, me and I'd be willing to bet everyone else on this site have *plenty* of products made in china, or made with Chinese parts. And "made in" labels only have to mean "assembled in", as I'm sure you know. There's an interesting documentary about that but I can't remember the name of it. I imagine it'd be easy to find online though.
Regardless, yes I do take offense when someone vocalizes that I should be ashamed for buying outside of Canada (or just china). There are plenty of great weapons made outside of north America, and deciding to own one is fine. But that in no way means you can't also own one made within it. I've got plenty of American made guns, as well as czech, wherever husqvarnas were made lol, German, Russian, and yes, Chinese. That being said, I didnt want to sound overly strident in my response to you, I was just pointing out that it gets real old hearing that stuff.

I appreciate a good response, so it appears your argument is "Why care where it comes from?" I still do, and I also still feel like you're missing my point. As mentioned in earlier posts in this thread I own guns from countries aside from Canada and the US- but they're all from Western style democracies. We can make choices in a lot of things we buy, in guns, the choices are incredibly easy. I can also assure you that you would be just as surprised how much I avoid the products of communist, repressive countries like China as you feel I'd be in an inspection of my household for Chinese goods. I care, because the facts are clear: buying Western, especially Canadian and American, guns helps our cause hugely. Buying boatloads of tacticool Chinese... Not so much. Plus, I like guys like me feeding a family and enjoying western life. I'd much sooner support them with my gun money. Others think walmart's a good place to save money and couldn't give two you know what's.

 

[sendmorebrains]

Buy American and never look back, the North American firearms industry needs the support, puts out better products, and you won't be throwing your money like everyone else in the walmart crowd to a communist country where the citizens can't even own the guns they make.

Canadian firearms owners are sure idealists and politically conscious when it comes to rules and paper. Wave Chinese crap in front of them for the price of a family boston pizza dinner cheaper than American/Canadian and they're all over like a fat kid on a smarty. You asked a good question, and the good answer is buy American. Down the road you can add a Dlask 12.5" barrel if you want; if 300 bucks is too much for an accessory for a guy he has have bigger problems than picking which gun to buy.

Frankly, people should be ashamed to be shooting Chinese knock offs. The disturbing part is few give a sh1t anymore about where what they buy comes from; don't be part of that moral slide. Consider going for a Maverick/Mossberg, no shorter barrels but fantastic guns. Flame suit on, fire away folks.

This is by far the best example of marketing 101 based on ethics and guilt.

Black-and-white fallacy marketing ie: "the your with us or against us" on why you should purchase an American firearm while the Star Spangled banner is playing in the back ground reeks of contrived loyalty to a brand label.

If the "dont be part of that moral slide" is applied to the US debt then why is the largest foreign holder of the U.S. debt is..... China, which owns more about $1.2 trillion in bills, notes and bonds, according to the Treasury.

Im thinking moral irony would be a better choice of words..

Well time to clean my Springfield XD40 which is licensed and sold in the US of A! BUT manufactured in the city of Karlovac, Croatia by HS Produkt.
Ohh that reminds me my Benelli M4 which the US Army, LAPD are issued with, needs cleaning too but I only use Italian gun oil for that and I was saving that Italian gun oil for my Beretta 92FS which btw is the same sidearm for the US Army yet again and the list goes on and on..........




..

 

[Ardent]

Vyrtual, sendmore; so what is your argument? "Everyone else is doing it?" Vyrtual, we agree on some things, but the argument of "your house is full of it" is literally only the argument above. Guns have the notable distinction of being important to us politically, most TV's aren't. Homegrown manufacturers, even American manufacturers help us, it's not even debatable.

How does China's insatiable thirst for US debt equate to we should buy their guns, sendmore? I really don't care if you buy Chinese noodles or kids' bathtub toys. I do care when people buy blatant knock offs of western guns that are undercutting an industry here at home that is incredibly beneficial to us. How is this even debatable?

The "check your house" argument is very simply as mentioned the age old adolescent "everyone else is doing it" argument. It doesn't matter if you like Chinese lawn ornaments or televisions, it does matter if you buy Chinese guns when we make those here and damn good ones.

 

[sendmorebrains]

I do care when people buy blatant knock offs of western guns that are undercutting an industry here at home that is incredibly beneficial to us. How is this even debatable?

The "check your house" argument is very simply as mentioned the age old adolescent "everyone else is doing it" argument. It doesn't matter if you like Chinese lawn ornaments or televisions, it does matter if you buy Chinese guns when we make those here and damn good ones.

Ok heres the reality check.
These are US based $$$... but the argument is why be FORCED to purchase a product that its patent has run out ie: the 870...
Free market means not having to use only Rogers or Bell. Free market means Norc or Grizz or Remington. Not just Remington.

Blatant knock off ? lol. - you make it sound like its a crime, you seem to have forgotten to mention that the patent is expired.

For half the money of the Remington 870 you can buy a Hawk or an NEF Pardner. The NEF Pardner sells for $269. These are both clones of the Remington 870 now that the patent has run out... and the NEF Pardner is 100% made with better quality components and craftsmanship. (I've heard the same about the Hawk but I haven't been able to verify it first hand.)

So basically if you want the Remington 870 you can get it for half the price ... and a better gun... by buying the Pardner in the US..

If you want to spend in the $350 price range... the Benelli Nova is a much better shotgun than the Remington 870 or the Mossberg 500... so if you are going to pay the higher price... why not get the better gun.

If you are determined to buy a Remington 870... consider buying used. The quality of the guns made 10 years ago is better than what Remington is putting out today. Again ... you can get a better gun by paying less OR paying even much less for a blatent Chinese version. The point is free market for the consumer not moral aptitude.

 

[Ardent]

And you seem to have completely forgotten how Dlask's 8.5" 870 was used as a model for early Chinese knock offs, effectively wiping out a whole successful product line for a small Canadian shop. They've cut back on producing 12.5" barrels as well, same reason.

We agree on the other shotguns, I don't like the 870 particularly and especially not modern remington products. Patents aren't what I mean either, plenty of American companies make 1911s and I don't advocate buying Norinco 1911s only because the patent's run out. All I'm concerned about is western manufacture, it helps our cause, sport, and way of life.

A lot of people, like you outline, couldn't care less where their gun comes from anymore. It still matters, bigtime.

 

[D Gordon]

Wow alot of interesting discussion. I think its going to come down to me handling a few and see whats best for me. One last question: what would be the approx effective range difference between 12.5 and 18 inch barrels?

 

[skoal]

Range of slug or pattern of shot?

 

[supernova]

And you seem to have completely forgotten how Dlask's 8.5" 870 was used as a model for early Chinese knock offs, effectively wiping out a whole successful product line for a small Canadian shop. They've cut back on producing 12.5" barrels as well, same reason.

We agree on the other shotguns, I don't like the 870 particularly and especially not modern remington products. Patents aren't what I mean either, plenty of American companies make 1911s and I don't advocate buying Norinco 1911s only because the patent's run out. All I'm concerned about is western manufacture, it helps our cause, sport, and way of life.

A lot of people, like you outline, couldn't care less where their gun comes from anymore. It still matters, bigtime.

Although I see your point, I dont think its right to try and force it on people. You believe in it firmly and thats just fine, but not everyone does. If someone wants to buy chinese guns, thats fine. You know why? Canadian distributors get paid in that process. The importers who bring them in make money. Canadians make money off those chinese guns. You dont care that little items in your house are chinese but care about where your guns are made? That doesnt make sense to me at all. You "supported" a communist country when you bought said items but refuse to support that same communist country when you buy your guns? I dunno man, doesnt add up to me. Leave people alone, why make them feel bad about buying things they want?

 

[D Gordon]

Range of slug or pattern of shot?

I guess both.

 

[supernova]

Wow alot of interesting discussion. I think its going to come down to me handling a few and see whats best for me. One last question: what would be the approx effective range difference between 12.5 and 18 inch barrels?

Very little difference, chokes play a bigger factor in shot patterning. Some ballistics testing showed Remington reduced recoil slugs gave up 2.5" penetration in 10% ballistic gel swapping from an 18.5" barrel to 14". Penetration was still impressive. The same shotgun/slug was used to take many deer, most of which the slug passed clean thru and anchored the deer on the spot. Those that ran didnt make it very far. Shots were as far as 75 yds IIRC