- Location
- Central Pacific
I'm here for a little rant, as I should be doing other things.....I'm a good procrastinator. 
Every few weeks somebody says "I don't want to spend as much on a scope mount as I did the whole rifle", and last week I replied to that one.
The M14s (m305) is a smokin' deal at $400 from Marstar.....there will be a day sooner than you think when you will be saying
"I remember when they were only $400, I should've bought 2 or 3 !!!!"
I've been building/re-building these M14s's for a few years now, for the exception of delivery times
I seem to have built some pretty accurate rifles.
The US boards have been slagging the Poly's and Norc's since they first hit US soil. Most of the evaluations on these rifles were some from around 1980 (give or take), most bolt fears are horse hockey. OK I did see a BBL and Bolt fail early last year, so have SA Inc.....for that even a few USGI ones did.
Ron Smith of Smith Enterprises has stated that almost everything is = to GI.
That's fact.....so just shoot the thing.
As for the whole up-grade....change what you want....it's your money.
I personally have re-built 20+, I'm not a gunsmith it's just a hobby.
So here's the story, so far I've had my hands on and serviced about 50, M14/M14s/M1A's.
Wouldn't you know it, the only ones that have ever caused me any grief, besides welded on FH'ers on norcs.
The M1A receivers may look nicer than the M14s (m305).....but baby..... looks aren't everything!!
One time at band camp.......what the hell???
I mean, one time I was asked to install a tac release on a SA Inc. Done it 40 times or more on the M14s and even a few real M14's....there are a few lucky bastards that still have them and that damned '12.3' that's goes with them.
With the right tools, a nice long punch, this is very straight forward job with it sometimes being hard to drive the roll pin out. This was not a part that was meant to be removed.....probably ever, so the access hole is terrible.
I broke 2 different punches and bent my third getting this pin out, turns out that SA Inc had used a piece of solid wire to hold this pin it????? I found out why sooner than later, after trying to get 5 different pins in (I'm a little slow I guess ) I realized that the holes were not in line with each other.....they were curved? I don't know how SA Inc did it.....but they did?????
Last week I was asked over to install a SA Inc into a Sage, very straight forward....so I thought. The owner got it used, apparently only 40 rounds through it, but it wasn't very accurate so it was sold used?? This sounded a little odd to me, a new SA that was a bad shooter???? I stripped her down but I couldn't get the op-rod out of the receiver channel, upon close inspection I could see that the area had not been machined flush, the relief area was too high and the op-rod tab was 100% (this is good) so there wasn't enough play to just fall out, after a 20 minute fight with bigger and bigger tools....I won.
You can clearly see the line along the channel
I quickly found out what made this M1A a poor shooter......you'll never guess what was missing.......the bolt roller !!!! NO BOLT ROLLER ON A NEW RIFLE!!!
Which one isn't like the others?? the left one is the one I pulled from the rifle....the other two are from the 'magic box'.
WTF ???? Now that's good quality control . One thing they did do right, the op-rod guide surface of the BBL was knurled to NM spec, so that guide wasn't going to come off easily but that I knew.
Lucky for this CGN'r, I just happened to have 8 rollers and clips in my magic box (some of you wet coasters have seen it ).
I do have most GI tools for the M14, but the one I lack is a set if bolt roller pliers...wanted them for a long time, I've even been told how to make them but I don't have the time to fart around like that and quite frankly I've never needed them.
I went with what I had, as Hungry puts it a "welfare method"..... a hand full of dental tools. I placed the clip on the bolt, moved the roller on just enough to engage one end of the clip and then pushed the clip under the roller, sort of like putting a bicycle tire on a rim. IT WORKED !!!! I don't think he (the fellow that owned the SA) knew how surprised/happy I was that it worked......that's about the only service I haven't done on the M14 types. No wonder this thing shot poorly, that and I don't think it had ever had more than a light oiling on it.
BTW.......don't bother buying cheap dental tools from Princess Auto or a swap meet.......be nice to your dentist and ask him if he throws them away when they are broken? Most dentists I know, clean them and then put them in a box until a moment just like this. Myself and two helicopter mechanics clean out my dentists box of 'broken' tools. They may not be good enough for dental work but most the ones I get look 100% to me.
Free = Good
Too make a long story short........tooooooo late, Norc's are cheap and most of them shoot really well, don't whine about the high priced extras....that are made in the US, based on US wages.
Look at it this way.
For $400 M14s (M305) shoots great.
Upgrade 18.5 barrel $425
Used USGI Bolt $300
Garand sites $100
USGI Stock $120
Vortex $125
Unitize Norc Gas $50
Op-rod....as good as GI
Someone to put it together $100 ? (that's $1200 extra $1600 total)
SA Socom restricted.....what's the point or $2000 +
SA Rack grade $2000 plus
Replace SA Inc Bolt with GI...$300
New 18.5 barrel $425
USGI sights $100 (most new SA sights....I don't like)
New SA Inc OP-rod......not as good as GI
Unitize New SA Inc Gas $50
Someone to put it together $100 ?
That's another $1000, total $3000
OK......do you get my point, that $350 scope mount doesn't sound so bad.
Alright.....I've wasted enough time....back to work.
GG&FB
Every few weeks somebody says "I don't want to spend as much on a scope mount as I did the whole rifle", and last week I replied to that one.
The M14s (m305) is a smokin' deal at $400 from Marstar.....there will be a day sooner than you think when you will be saying
"I remember when they were only $400, I should've bought 2 or 3 !!!!"I've been building/re-building these M14s's for a few years now, for the exception of delivery times
I seem to have built some pretty accurate rifles.The US boards have been slagging the Poly's and Norc's since they first hit US soil. Most of the evaluations on these rifles were some from around 1980 (give or take), most bolt fears are horse hockey. OK I did see a BBL and Bolt fail early last year, so have SA Inc.....for that even a few USGI ones did.
Ron Smith of Smith Enterprises has stated that almost everything is = to GI.
That's fact.....so just shoot the thing.
As for the whole up-grade....change what you want....it's your money.
I personally have re-built 20+, I'm not a gunsmith it's just a hobby.
So here's the story, so far I've had my hands on and serviced about 50, M14/M14s/M1A's.
Wouldn't you know it, the only ones that have ever caused me any grief, besides welded on FH'ers on norcs.
The M1A receivers may look nicer than the M14s (m305).....but baby..... looks aren't everything!!
One time at band camp.......what the hell???
I mean, one time I was asked to install a tac release on a SA Inc. Done it 40 times or more on the M14s and even a few real M14's....there are a few lucky bastards that still have them and that damned '12.3' that's goes with them.
With the right tools, a nice long punch, this is very straight forward job with it sometimes being hard to drive the roll pin out. This was not a part that was meant to be removed.....probably ever, so the access hole is terrible.
I broke 2 different punches and bent my third getting this pin out, turns out that SA Inc had used a piece of solid wire to hold this pin it?????
I found out why sooner than later, after trying to get 5 different pins in (I'm a little slow I guess ) I realized that the holes were not in line with each other.....they were curved? I don't know how SA Inc did it.....but they did?????Last week I was asked over to install a SA Inc into a Sage, very straight forward....so I thought. The owner got it used, apparently only 40 rounds through it, but it wasn't very accurate so it was sold used?? This sounded a little odd to me, a new SA that was a bad shooter???? I stripped her down but I couldn't get the op-rod out of the receiver channel, upon close inspection I could see that the area had not been machined flush, the relief area was too high and the op-rod tab was 100% (this is good) so there wasn't enough play to just fall out, after a 20 minute fight with bigger and bigger tools....I won.
You can clearly see the line along the channel
I quickly found out what made this M1A a poor shooter......you'll never guess what was missing.......the bolt roller !!!! NO BOLT ROLLER ON A NEW RIFLE!!!
Which one isn't like the others?? the left one is the one I pulled from the rifle....the other two are from the 'magic box'.
WTF
???? Now that's good quality control . One thing they did do right, the op-rod guide surface of the BBL was knurled to NM spec, so that guide wasn't going to come off easily but that I knew. Lucky for this CGN'r, I just happened to have 8 rollers and clips in my magic box (some of you wet coasters have seen it
).I do have most GI tools for the M14, but the one I lack is a set if bolt roller pliers...wanted them for a long time, I've even been told how to make them but I don't have the time to fart around like that and quite frankly I've never needed them.
I went with what I had, as Hungry puts it a "welfare method"..... a hand full of dental tools. I placed the clip on the bolt, moved the roller on just enough to engage one end of the clip and then pushed the clip under the roller, sort of like putting a bicycle tire on a rim. IT WORKED !!!! I don't think he (the fellow that owned the SA) knew how surprised/happy I was that it worked......that's about the only service I haven't done on the M14 types. No wonder this thing shot poorly, that and I don't think it had ever had more than a light oiling on it.
BTW.......don't bother buying cheap dental tools from Princess Auto or a swap meet.......be nice to your dentist and ask him if he throws them away when they are broken? Most dentists I know, clean them and then put them in a box until a moment just like this. Myself and two helicopter mechanics clean out my dentists box of 'broken' tools. They may not be good enough for dental work but most the ones I get look 100% to me.
Free = Good
Too make a long story short........tooooooo late, Norc's are cheap and most of them shoot really well, don't whine about the high priced extras....that are made in the US, based on US wages.
Look at it this way.
For $400 M14s (M305) shoots great.
Upgrade 18.5 barrel $425
Used USGI Bolt $300
Garand sites $100
USGI Stock $120
Vortex $125
Unitize Norc Gas $50
Op-rod....as good as GI
Someone to put it together $100 ? (that's $1200 extra $1600 total)
SA Socom restricted.....what's the point or $2000 +
SA Rack grade $2000 plus
Replace SA Inc Bolt with GI...$300
New 18.5 barrel $425
USGI sights $100 (most new SA sights....I don't like)
New SA Inc OP-rod......not as good as GI
Unitize New SA Inc Gas $50
Someone to put it together $100 ?
That's another $1000, total $3000
OK......do you get my point, that $350 scope mount doesn't sound so bad.
Alright.....I've wasted enough time....back to work.
GG&FB
